Could the 1611 KJV have been better?

Yes I have a bishop. You will find him right behind the pulpit preaching and teaching the truth from the KJB.

 

Excellent point. I don't think that there is.

 

I had no intention of putting words in anyone's mouth AF. But let me ask you this. Is the NKJV a gift from God? Is the NASB a gift from God? What about the NIV? Or the ESV? Ar these also gifts from God?

 

And is that how you address him or do you call him pastor? I believe you know the point I am making brother.

I hope you got the point. The original language of the Scriptures must always be our final determination of the Truth.

There are only two offices in the Church, pastor and deacon (for instance).

Also ...

This is why God said "not many" and did not say "not any" wise men...:

KJV 1 Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

There have always been gifted, educated wise men provided to the Church by God to help with "the tongues wherein God was pleased to speak to his Church by the Prophets and Apostles".


HankD​

 

And the truth is also found in the ESV, the NASB, the NIV and the NKJV, as well as other English translations. Truth is not limited to the KJV. It is found in the various English translations God has given down through the years. And it will be found in future English translations as God continues to provide His unchangeable and preserved word for generations to come until the Lord returns.

 

Who appointed him a bishop?

 

Well, it's one of the Baptist distinctives, so in a way it's both. Here are the "traditional" Baptist distinctives. I suppose that if an individual disagrees with these essential declarations then they probably should not call their Church a "Baptist" Church or be a member of a Baptist Church.

Many who agree with only some or even most but not all of the Baptist distinctives do just that and don't use the word Baptist or drop it out of out of their name (after a vote) and call themselves a "Community" Church or a "Bible" Church.

I've heard of some Baptist Churches who agree with the distinctives but don't call themselves a "Baptist" Church. Personally I disagree with that position. Not that I'm a successionist, but I think it's important to use the word "Baptist" if a local Body is adhering to the distinctives.

KJV Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;​

HankD​

 

Can't comment to much here for the ole hand is freezing up but these are "giifted" men to get churches going back then - Are prophets still around stay? Paul tells us to do the work of an evangelist not be an evangelist.

Study the word pastor through and you willl find it assoicated with Israel and sheep in Jeremiah.

About teachers - are those special gifted teachers?

Not being picky - call your preacher whatever - I don't panic but we must get out doctrine right.

Bishop is in line with an office - Just because Baptists and others shy away from it doesn't mean bishop is wrong. Now Bishop as a title is wrong - it is not Bishop Bob Smith but Bob Smith, bishop.

God bless

 

The translators used bishop because bishop is the English word derived from episcopos. Bishop is not an indigenous English word adopted by the RCC. Greek episcopos became Latin episcopus became English bisceop.
Scripture does not use a single term for chuch leaders; where do these elder-only, bishop-only, pastor-only ideas come from?
If bishop must be discarded because of misuse by the RCC, should not elder likewise be jettisoned because of Presb. and LDS misuse?

 

AVBunyan: //Now Bishop as a title is wrong - it is not Bishop Bob Smith but Bob Smith, bishop.//

Say what?
Isn't 'Bishop' a title both places?

In the KJV1769 Edition at crosswalk.com we find :

"Jesus Christ":
189 Times

"Christ Jesus
58 times

Jesus the Christ
once at Matt 16:20

What then is the difference between 'Jesus Christ'
and 'Christ Jesus'?

or, explain this verse:

Phippians 1:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
Paul and Timotheus the seruants of Iesus Christ,
to all the Saints in Christ Iesus, which are at Philippi,
with the Bishops and Deacons:

 

The problem with the term "bishop" is one of association.

At the time of the translation of the AV, the Church of England claimed to be "apostolic", they had (and for all practical purposes still do) a sacerdotal/ministerial priesthood which celebrated an Anglican version of the Roman "sacrifice of the mass" and "high" Anglicans even called it the mass in the days of King James.

Some high Anglicans persist to this day in the celebration of the "mass" but most celebrate the "Eucharist".

This "priesthood" requires apostolic ordination either by an actual Apostle or a successor. The Anglican Bishop is the holder of this apostolic office (passed on from the Apostles) in the Church of England.

When they broke with Rome they kept many of the grave clothes of the papacy and still do to this day amongst the high Anglicans. The apostolic bishop and the sacerdotal or ministerial priesthood are examples.

Look and see : http://www.cofe.anglican.org/faith/anglican

Historically Baptists have shunned the title of Bishop because of it's doctrinal association with the Anglo/Roman churches.

As some have made note, the koine word itself means "overseer" and in my estimation is more in line with a "deacon" (one who serves).

The deacons in the local Church where I attend "oversee" the Church, that is, they watch over the needs of the people, the facilities, the budget, they do the mundane such as cutting the grass, repairing broken things and the spiritual such as attending to prayer, visitation, communion, etc.

HankD

 

The KJV1611 would have been better in 1611 if the translators
had translated (instead of transliterating)
the name of Moses'es altar in Ex 17/15:

Exodus 17:15 (KJV1611 Edition from e-sword.com):
And Moses built an Altar,
and called the name of it IEHOUAH Nissi.

Exodus 17:15 (KJV1611 Edition from Nelson):
And Moses built an Altar,
and called the name of it ||I E H O V A H Nissi.

Margin note: !!That is, the LORD my banner.

And the un-authorized translators of the KJV couldn't
ever settle down on how to translate that name

Exodus 17:15 (KJV1769 Edition from crosswalk.com):
And Moses built an altar,
and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:

Exodus 17:15 (KJV1769 Edition from e-sword.com):
And Moses built an altar,
and called the name of it Jehovah-nissi:

None of the three forms of 'nissi' appear in my
dictionary. So i need some translation other than
the KJVs to figure out what is going on here
(or I guess I could just read the REAL King James
Bibles - the Bibles with the Translator margine Notes
in them. For example, consider the HCSB,
the Southern Bapitst Bible.

Exodus 17:15 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
And Moses built an altar
and named it, "The Lord Is My Banner."

 

Ann example is that the later GB editions have "passover" in Acts 12:4.

 

It finally happened.

I knew it would happen sooner or later. The focus has now changed from the King James Only philosophy to the King James Version itself. All along, that was the real object of criticism. For example, I received an email advertisement for a booklet that, in my opinion is attacking the KJV and the translators. It lists seven reasons why the KJV 1611 could have been better.

 

I fail to see how examining the KJV is any different than examining the NIV or NASB. The fact is that many use the KJV as a plumb line with which to measure all other versions. If it is indeed the perfect gift to English speaking people, then it should stand up to any scrutiny it's put under.

 

There is no difference if one is examining the versions. However, this is not an examination; it is an attack. For someone to say, "I love the KJV. I believe the KJV is the Word of God," and then begin to list reasons why the KJV is a bad translation is an attack in my opinion.

Rightly so. The fact is, the other versions can't stand next to the KJV.

It has and will continue to do so. That is why the attack on the KJVonly philosophy has been so effective, because the KJV itself can stand on its own.