Courtship

Yes I have, quit begging the question. You threw out the absurd assumption that just because we perform many of the smae biological functions common among all living thigs(eating, breathing), that our sex in comparison is not fundamental behavior. The way we procure our food and consume it is different and modified by our cultural mandates. Sex however is still pretty true to its original form across cultural lines.

Your talking to an anthropologist. Sure I've been to more countries than you probably will in your entire life. This was just an isolated example that I used and probably overgeneralized from our culture. I have yet to see any human culture lick their anus though.

And humans don't?! PLEEEEEAAAAASE! So where do babies come from daddy?

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Not sure where you are coming from with this other than to detract attention from the fact that your accustations and assumptions are absurd.

Wrong again. I've been happily married for ten years.

Now your really exposing your naivety. Promiscuity has existed in every society and culture throughout history even our own. The myth of the "good ol days" where everyone was true to one wife/husband and nothing like is happening today is just that. Sure it may be more out in the open and talked about but our culture of the present does not have the monopoly on promiscuous behavior. Promiscuity in society and the frequencies of such behavior fluctuate over given periods. During periods of national crisis (such as the World Wars, cultural revolution of the 60's), historians have cited spikes in promiscuous behavior in humans (gleaned from personal interviews, statistics on birth rates out of wedlock, etc..) In fact, social researchers have recently identified a drop in promiscuous sexual activity among adolescents over the past ten years. I'm sure that you mean well and think that your opinions are right on the mark but you really should do a little research before holding to a particular point of view that has no merit. One bad apple spoils the whole barrel.

 

It's not nearly a matter of 'going along for the ride,' ChurchBoy; it's a matter of actively self-disciplining oneself and following God no matter what the cost or temptations. That is hardly going along for the ride! It cannot be done by those who are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit for, quite contrary to any 'going along for the ride' scenario, it tends to go against all natural desires and 'common sense' -- and is always quite superior to both.

I think you will notice, in the Bible, that the ONLY time we are told to think for ourselves is in Isaiah 1:14, where the purpose of that thinking is to realize the truly horrid and sinful condition we are in before salvation.

Being a slave to righteousness (Romans 6) means you do NOT follow anything but Righteousness Himself. And that is in all aspects of one's life. It's not easy; it's not 'going along for the ride.' It IS discipleship, however.

 

...and yet as youths we are CONSTANTLY told to think for ourselves, to make our own future happen.

I think there's a way for thinking to be applied to faith. Faith is one tool we have to help us find contentment in our lives, and choosing to trust prayer to guide us through our anxiety isn't lazy, nor is it fruitless. At the same time, we have a responsibility to use our human capabilities to become the best we can be. We're not puppets, and our free will is the gift that we exercise our way, drawing us to or driving us from God.

I think an intellectual has special hurdles to clear, but I don't believe that "thinkers" have less faith than, for lack of a better word (forgive me!), "believers". I believe that God values he who asks questions. In seeking answers, great faith can be attained.

 

Excellent point. I always ask questions, because although I have faith in God, my same sentiments toward his "believers" I've found warrents a degree of warriness. There is a fine line between undaunted faith and naivety and I've observed too many Christians crossing the line periodically. I survived the hype evangelism of the 80's and early 90's and have listned to way to much trumped up garbage that was passed on as authentic and insired biblical truth from the "name it - claim it" theology to the many urbgan legends that are purported by Christians about miraculous happenings. Too often Christians have jumped onto the bandwagon of "passing the buck" in the area of personal responsibility. I've observed many people down at the alter on sundays weeping because of financial troubles, marital problems, or problems with children. In many of these cases I had firsthand knowledge of the circumstances and can say that instead of an "attack of satan" the culrpits were simply bad personal choices that someone needed to take responsibility for, pray about, and take innitiative to change. The predestination philosophy in my observations makes people conplacent and eventually leads to apathy and defeat. People begin to sit around waiting for God to drop something right in front of them with no effort on their part and then they get discouraged when something doesn't happen. That is where common sense and reasoning augment, rather than "trump" God's will and workings in your life. I once knew a woman who was waiting for God to send her her perfect mate. It wasn't happening and for her it didn't look as if it would anytime soon. But this woman was about 100 lbs overweight, didn't wear any makeup, and her taste in clothes was needing to say the least, not to mention that her personality was somewhat grating. Now we all can't be drop dead gorgeous hunks and babes but a little common sense an dsome innitiative on her part to make herself a little more marketable in that area could make God's job a whole lot easier since the only thing that limits the working of God is our personal will.

 

Margie, it's not the asking of questions which is wrong, it is not paying attention to God's answers which is!

But then, most people don't ask Him at all, do they? Most people, even Christians, try to think for themselves without checking in with God at all. What they miss in their lives is not only incredible, but very sad.

God does care about each detail. That is what He was telling us when He said all the hairs of our head are numbered. I'm sure the choice of a life mate is more important than the number of hairs on one's head!

One of the hardest things for an intellectual to do is to pay attention to God instead of 'thinking for oneself.' When GOD guides the thoughts, they are much more productive, and a much better use of brain cells. To be indwelt by the Holy Spirit does not mean your head should be detatched.

Is this 'checking your brains in at the door'? No, not at all. It is learning to use them, instead.

 

Helen - Im not arguing God is deeply concerned about every aspects of our lives

He is

Im just arguing that He plans everything we must do down to the dotted i and crossed t

See, the problem for me is that pre-supposes universal election and predestination - and while they are taught on a significantly lesser scale then universal - I believe that God as our Father figure requires us to do certain things with only general guidance.

Look at all the stories of people who worried, clamoured, and shouted for the dot to be revealed unto them in their lives.

Their reponses cover a wide range of action - in a surprisingly small type

I even think to an aquaintance of my brother's who got a girl pregnant - and they were both Christians - Their marriage has lasted - but then I think to another example of two people who prayed and prayed and waited for the "one" whom God would send their way - finally they got married, and poof divorce - I think of another couple - The guy wasnt sure about marriage, but the girl would not stand for just being dated since she wanted a family - she gave him an ultimatum - and they are still happily married. Over and over the choices change - that which is sin for one - is God's will for another

I understand God is capable of doing so - and I believe that in fact in certain cases He does do so.

God calls us to do more then passively follow to do more then just endure - he calls us to perservere to strive towards the goal - we know the goal - we know how to do it - Since God's intimately involved in the process He's more then willing to speed up the process in certain places

We are called to choose whom we will serve
We are called to come and reason with Him
We are called to go out and tell about Him

All too many people think we shouldnt bother trying to understand God - but thats what He wants us to do - How can we have a relationship with someone we dont understand?

Cogito ergo sum - proves we exist - and that something else exists
Credo ut intelligam - call us to explore that something else that which is God!

 

Helen, either you have a deep mistrust of anyone with a post graduate degree (not unlike many Christians I've met), or you just don't want to think outside the little bubble youve formed around yourself. I had one too once, I know. Your reasoning would hold true if on every aspect of our lives that God would give us a clear, distinguishable reply. But we all know he doesn't. If he he does reply clearly and distinguishably to every question we ask him then let me know your secret cause I want to head down to the track and place some bets after asking him which ponies will win. God relies upon us to make our own choices that are reflective of his influence in our lives. That means that in some situations where his will is not apparent that we apply Godly wisdom to the circumstances to negotiate the outcome. If you call on the Lord he does hear you and will work on your behalf. You might not always see it or be able to discern the outcome, but in the meantime God puts his trust in us to not do stupid things that could throw wrenches in what he's trying to do for us. Thats where critical reasoning comes in. Smart, intellectual people who are Christians can be led astray, as can Christians of lesser intelligence. Like I said God's will is only limited by our personal capacities or lack therof. If God wants to work financial healing in your life then he would probably connect you to an advisor who has skill in the area wrought by experience and education. He would probably be less likely to send you to "Jane Doe" who although is a wonderful Christian has never had to balance more than a $200.00 running balance in her checkbook.
Helen, there is a place for educated people in the body of Christ. When you need guidence in matters of spiritual discrnment, I suggest that you go talk to your Pastor. If you are concerned about the erosional impacts of putting a commercial center on a sudivided plot of ground that you own then you better come talk to me as God has educated me in that manner to be of use to you respectfully.In fact, it was Paul, who was highly educated by the standards of his day, whom God chose to establish the early Church across Europe and Asia. Probably because he already had the organizational skills and knowledge of formal theological workings to do so.