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Featured Creating Your Own God

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Oct 4, 2021.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Since post #33, Calvinists have posted more off topic disinformation posts.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 23:13 says the people entering were prevented from entering. Calvinists say this "overruled" God's plan. I said nope as no plan of God can be thwarted. So once again, something is read into the text (God's plan was that those people could not be prevented) therefore God's plan would be overruled if they were prevented. Around in circles they go, always moving away from the fact those people demonstrated actual spiritual ability but were not being compelled by "irresistible grace."

    By carefully studying a verse or passage, and asking "what is the least God is saying" we can discern the extent of open ended statements using the constraint of context.
     
  3. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    The following an extract from a booklet by A.W. Pink entitled Eternal Punishment :

    The eternal damnation of the wicked will no more have an end than will the 'eternal salvation' of the redeemed. The 'everlasting destruction' of unbelievers will prove as interminable as the 'everlasting glory' of God. To deny the former is to betray the latter. To affirm the everlastingness of God is to prove the endlessness of the misery of his enemies.
     
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    He still won’t address these previous posts of his you’re exposing. :rolleyes::Cautious
     
  5. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I do notice that you have no problem calling people heretics if they do not agree with your theology. Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror more often.
     
  6. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    How about calling him a Hairy Tick instead. :) Just a little humor to lighten the mood.

    Seriously, when someone tries to completely overturn well established biblical doctrines with their unique translational inabilities ---that's the time people need to draw lines of theological parameters that must not be crossed. This is not a Calvinist vs. Arminian debate. It's much broader than that. There are plenty of non-Cals who also denounce his brand of false teaching.
     
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  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I agree bad theology is bad theology no matter how well you try to dress it up. Big problem I have seen on BB is when someone disagrees with what has been said they tend to go over the top with their response.
    I cannot and do not want to be the judge of someone else's faith yet we see that from some on here. Please remember that judgement is not left in your hands.
    While we will and should reject theology that we see as in error we should do so from a Christian perspective.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    One of the tactics of false teachers is to make claims not based on specific statements contextually considered, but on undefined statements. For example, say I claim God put invisible pink elephants in orbit around Mars. You say show me the evidence.

    I say "all things are possible with God." Then I attack, by saying by your denial that God did not put them in orbit, you are diminishing the divine attributes of God, and you deny God is sovereign and does as He pleases.

    Take, "No one seeks after God." Does this mean no one ever, at any time, while unregenerate seeks God? Nope. But if you offer a more limited meaning, based on context, then the false teaches say you are adding to scripture. Never mind they did, claiming their interpretation is what it says, and any other view adds to scripture.

    What is a way of finding the intended scope of "open ended" statements, rather than claiming everything imaginable is intended?

    Ask the question, What is the least that God could be stating. No one seeks God some of the time or at any time? Some of the time. The context of Romans 3 indicates the idea is when a person is sinning, they are not seeking God. Thus Paul uses the fact that we do not seek God all of the time to prove we are all under sin.

    There are many examples of the use of the bogus ploy, such as God would not destroy people in Gehenna because God is love. Overshooting the bounds of open ended statements can lead us into false doctrine. A sound bible study practice is to be a minimalists, being careful not to add to scripture by expanding the scope beyond its intent.

    Matthew 10:28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

    Thus If we ask what is the minimum being stated by God, we find we should fear God because He is "able" to destroy (kill the body and soul). Therefore to say we need not fear God because God is love is false doctrine.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Does 1 Corinthians 3:1 indicate men of flesh (unregenerate) can understand the milk of the gospel? Absolutely
    Does 1 Corinthians 2:14 indicate natural people (unregenerate) cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God? Nope
    Does Romans 3:11 say no one ever seeks God while unregenerate? Nope
    Does Matthew 23:13 indicate unregenerate people do at times seek God? Absolutely
    Does 2 Thessalonians 2:13 say people are conditionally elected for salvation through faith in the truth? Absolutely
    Does James 2:5 say God chooses those who love God? Absolutely
    Does 1 Timothy 2:3-6 say God desires all people to be saved and Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all? Absolutely

    If you study scripture carefully, you are less likely to be led astray by the inventions of people.
     
  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I agree that to say God can do something does not equate to God will or must do something. But I have also seen the other side of that problem when someone says that because God does one thing it means He can't do anything different. Which makes me ask the question, "is God sovereign or not"? Since He is sovereign then who are we to tell Him how to run His creation.
     
  11. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    You have been schooled on your twisted opinions of these passages over and over again.
    In 1 Cor. 2:14 unregenerate people are in view. People without the Spirit are not regenerate. They cannot understand spiritual things because they are only discerned through the Spirit of God.

    In 1 Cor. 3:1, the people addressed are believers. Yes, they're babes in Christ, yet still believers. These people can't digest meat yet; only milk. If you would simply carry out that which you profess to do --you would understand. Read the full chapter addressed to these infants in Christ. In verse 16 it says that God's Spirit dwells within them. That cannot be said of the unregenerate.
     
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  12. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Please repeat the words with me --no one. Again, no one. In verses 10 to 18 portions of Psalms and Isaiah are cited. Do you deny the veracity of Scripture?

    You talk a lot about proper Bible study methods but go against your professed principles in order to overturn clear biblical doctrines.
     
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  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Paul was using what is know in Rabbinic tradition as Midrash. This is taking OT passages of scripture out of their natural contexts so as to emphasize a point being made. And the point being made was that all, both Jews & Gentiles, are under sin. You on the other hand have taken it to mean that no one can seek God.

    These verses are a poetic exaggeration, a common figure of speech and should not to be read with a slavish literalism as you appear to be doing.

    When you hold that position you are supporting mans free will. Not seeking after God is an act of the will. You emphasize man will not seek after God. But it does not say that man can not seek after God! That is just you reading into scripture what you want to find.

    And how do you make this agree with Jer_29:13? Why would God say: "You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." if He knew they couldn’t do so? Or with Pro_8:17 "I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me."
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Heresy would be theology and doctrines contrary to those held by historical Christianity!
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Is God "sovereign" or not? Yes God is sovereign. (1 Timothy 6:15) What does the term convey? God either causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. Thus God is not the author of sin.

    And yes, those that claim because treated this person this way means God cannot treat another differently are proclaiming false doctrine. God does as He pleases. He has mercy on whom He has mercy and hardens whom He hardens.

    There are lots of sound rules of biblical interpretation, but this thread is about sticking to what God actually said and not expanding it to included what God did not say...

    Did Paul speak as to men of flesh (unregenerate) using spiritual milk? Yes. Does that indicate men of flesh (unregenerate) can understand spiritual milk? Absolutely. If I speak to a wall or tree as to men of flesh using spiritual milk, then I am indicating men of flesh can understand spiritual milk. Scripture cannot be broken.
     
  16. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Sort depends on what you call historic Christianity. You seem to think that it all started when Augustine decided he knew better what Christ Jesus and the apostles meant than they did. You follow uninspired men but I would rather follow the ones God inspired.
    Look at your theology and doctrines, they are man made by uninspired men. So tell me who should be followed?
     
  17. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    >>God either causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. Thus God is not the author of sin.<<

    I agree He is not but we have some that hold to a deterministic theology that would by necessity require God to be the author of sin and I have even had some of them say such "God is beneath the choices, even sin" and yet we are to be held responsible for for actions over which we have no real control. "we incur guilt or reward because it is the choice we wanted to make. But it is God who controls our choices."

    All we can do is point out the errors in their thinking and perhaps the light will shine through the fog.
     
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Paul spoken to carnal BELIEVERS using spiritual milk!

    Do you not remember that the unbeliever has no insight into the light of Scriptures without the direct work of the Holy Spirit, for the Scriptures are Spiritually discerned?

    The Scriptures state:
    “But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to understand them, because spiritually they are discerned.”
    In context, the writer states the contrast between the believer and unbeliever.
    For the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11For who among men knows the things of the man, except the spirit of the man within him? So also, no one knows the things of God, except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, that we may know the things having been granted to us by God, 13which also we speak, not in words taught of human wisdom, but in those taught of the Spirit, communicating spiritual things by spiritual means.

    14But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he is not able to understand them, because spiritually they are discerned. 15But he who is spiritual judges all things, but he himself is judged by no one. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Who will instruct Him?”b But we have the mind of Christ.​
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet again the statement "as to men of flesh" in 1 Cor. 3:1 is ignored.

    So in the very thread where not expanding an open ended statement - the things of 1 Cor. 2:14 does not say whether all the things or only some of the things, spiritual meat, is in view - is claimed to say "all the things. Mind boggling

    Note that not one Calvinist has admitted that Paul spoke as to men of flesh using spiritual milk. Nope, that part of the verse is ripped out and shredded.

    1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
     
    #59 Van, Oct 6, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    After literally years of trying, I do not think Calvinists who post are able to acknowledge any problem with their theology. They seem to think since their viewpoint as existed for hundreds of years, and many well know people accept it, it cannot be false doctrine. I can cite verse after verse, and all I get is my view is "crackpot theology" and I am a terrible person for jumping up and down on one or two verses. Never mind I cited seven verses in one post on this thread.
     
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