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Creation

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The Bible tells us that the one doing the action is the Creator, the action is creating, and the result is the creation. Since God created the Heavens and the Earth, we must infer whether all of creation, i.e. the Universe, or some lesser part of creation, i.e. a born anew believer is in view. If the context points to a specific creation, perhaps using a less general term might help us better understand the word of God.

    Mark 10:6 (NASB) But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE.

    Here our choices are (1) the whole Universe or (2) humankind. Contextually humankind is the creation in view. So would not the actual intended message be "But from the beginning of humankind, God made them male and female?

    Mark13:19 “For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.

    Here, again, tribulation refers to the hard times humankind will endure, and thus creation refers to humankind.

    Mark16:15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

    The creation in view again is humankind.

    Romans 1:20
    For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    Here another New Testament writer (Paul) uses the phrase "creation of the world" to refer to the creation of humankind. Since the "creation" is specifically identified, "creation of humankind" better conveys the message. Clearly only humankind could see using some spiritual ability God's eternal power and divine nature.


    Romans 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


    Here it is not clear (at least to me) just what is being worshiped and served as if divine. Satan, idols made by hand, physical gratification all might be in view. I think "the creation" leaves open God's message.


    Romans 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.


    But here again, humankind is in view.


    Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

    Once again we see humankind is in view. Those that think something more is in view cannot explain how those other things could "hope."



     
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  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I hope this might clarify things a bit.

    The beginning is not a single point in time but an indeterminate period of time. The text does not clarify how long ‘the beginning’ took. The late John Sailhammer in his book, Genesis Unbound, says,

    “...the text does not say that God created the universe in the first moment of time; rather it says that God created the universe during an indeterminate period of time before the actual reckoning of a sequence of time began.” (p. 40)​

    We use the expression much the same way in English. In a long-distance race we might say, “He was passed by many runners in the beginning but ended up winning the marathon.”

    Rob
     
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  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I believe the earth was already here when God re-arranged its surface into its present order & set the earth's inclination on its axis to create seasons, & set the current time of the earth's rotation.

    He changed the length of the year in Hezekiah's time when the shadow on the sundial of Ahaz went bact 10 degrees, which could only have been caused by the dial's having been moved (didn't happen) or the earth's rotation being disturbed, which also changed its orbit around the sun.

    And, of course, there's the fact that over 99% of all plant & animal species that ever existed are now extinct. Some people here don't believe it, but all I'm gonna say is "Do your own homework" to see if I'm right or not.

    While some dinosaurs survived to become the dragons of worldwide legends, most were never seen by man, such as apatosaur & brontosaur. (The largest-known, positively-ID'd land animal was an 85-foot, 65-ton yet-unnamed sauropod that resembles those named above, discovered in 2014 by researchers from Drexel University.)

    So, I agree that many times, "creation" in Scripture refers to the creation of man.
     
  4. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    There is no universe, so we are all set. This earth, heaven above, and sheol underneath is all there is. This is just one square room in eternity. God says there are many square rooms in eternity. Some humans get to go into the next square version of a new reality. Perhaps some rooms have more dimensions and are not square? God says this room will exist for 8000 of our years. 7 millenniums have past, and 1 more to go. The rapture may explain more to us. We just have to be patient. Or death will come to some who cannot wait any longer. Waiting in another place may be easier than living in the present.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    What have you been smoking ?
     
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  6. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    It has everything to do with education. I no longer breath the smoke from western thought process, when it comes to the deception Satan has diverted the world with, away from the truth of God’s Word. This reality is rather mundane and full of sin. I guess the virtual reality of Satan's cosmology helps somewhat, even if it is all a lie. When Satan tempted Eve with knowledge and wisdom, remember what happened? I no longer smoke Satan's pipe of western knowledge (science). 2 Thessalonians 2 is not just spiritual deception. Most posters here are not spiritually deceived. There is however that small deception of western science that Satan offered the church. That is what I am not smoking.
     
  7. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    What have YOU been smoking?? :)
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, "in the beginning" does not necessarily refer to the evening of the first creation day. In the beginning of humankind, God created them male and female.
     
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    [QUOTE="robycop3, post: 2623227, member: 5296"
    SNIP
    So, I agree that many times, "creation" in Scripture refers to the creation of man.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, most of the times the Greek word translated as "creation, creature" refers to humankind.

    However, we also find the context pointing to a subset of humankind, those born anew in Christ. For example:

    Romans 8:21
    that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

    Only when born anew do humans become set free from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of becoming children of God.

    2 Corinthians 5:17
    Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

    Galatians 6:15
    For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
     
    #9 Van, Aug 10, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Not YOUR locoweed, for sure !
     
  11. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    OK, Mr. ZERO CREDIBILITY.
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, most of the times the Greek word translated as "creation, creature" refers to humankind.

    However, we also find the context pointing to a subset of humankind, those born anew in Christ. For example:

    Romans 8:21
    that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

    Only when born anew do humans become set free from the slavery of corruption into the freedom of the glory of becoming children of God.

    2 Corinthians 5:17
    Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

    Galatians 6:15
    For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews 9:11

    But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;

    Here just what "created things" are in view is again unclear. However, lets back up and consider this verse carefully, as I think this verse and verse 12 could be the basis of an entire sermon.


    First, when did Christ appear as a high (or chief) priest? Verse 12 tells us Christ entered (as High Priest) by means of His own blood, thus Christ was both High Priest and Sin Offering (the Lamb of God) when He shed His blood on the cross.

    The Good Things to come refers I believe to the blessings of salvation and eternal life with Christ.

    The greater and more perfect tabernacle is in the spiritual realm (the third heaven) and is not something made by humans from created material. (Hebrews 8:1-2)
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Revelation 3:14 To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

    Here we find a round-a-bout reference to Jesus Christ. Here beginning refers to being the originator, and of course, Christ is the originator of all born anew children of God.

    Perhaps when "creation" (G2937 - ktisis) is used to refer to those born anew, we might use "new creation." Following that pattern, then when the word refers to humankind, we might use "human creation."

    In looking back at the OP, I think I missed the mark at Romans 8:19, because I now think the "new creation" are the ones longing to be revealed as sons of God.
     
    #14 Van, Aug 11, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
    Here I think "new creation" hits the clarity mark.

    Col 1:23
    if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
    Here I think "human creation" best translates the message.

    Heb 4:13
    And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
    Again, "human creation" fits the context.
     
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