Credenda Agenda

[Karen]

Long years ago

, we lived out west in a university town. The Christian bookstore was a neat place, full of "serious" Christian books and no gifts. Lots of conversation with the energetic young workers sent by Doug Wilson's group in Moscow, ID.
They established bookstores and college ministries in a number of univ. towns in WY, ID, and WA. And these were sorely needed. Those places were not the Bible Belt, by any means.

Rev. Wilson's group became more and more Calvinistic in their approach. (The stock in their first stores was far more eclectic - lots of IVP for example.) I periodically received the Hammer magazine for years, till it unrecognizably morphed into the far more stylish Credenda Agenda.
This one can be read online.

Anyway, while I am not a Calvinist, (I'm one of those SBC fence straddlers ), I always considered that group orthodox. My kids' Christian school here has used some of their textbooks.

So I have been astonished to find that Doug Wilson has been associated with something called the Auburn Controversy, and that various Calvinists have anathematized him and called on him to repent, that his soul is literally in danger of damnation. So presumably from the P in Tulip, they think he has never been a Christian, for that to be a danger. Apparently the idea is that he has redefined and/or left justification by faith.
Anybody here conversant with what is going on?

Karen

 

[GeneMBridges]

So I have been astonished to find that Doug Wilson has been associated with something called the Auburn Controversy, and that various Calvinists have anathematized him and called on him to repent, that his soul is literally in danger of damnation.

Well, he did write this:

A theological liberal in a mainstream denomination should be considered coventally a Christian, even though he denies the virgin birth, the substitutionary death of Christ, the resurrection, and the final judgment....Apparently the idea is that he has redefined and/or left justification by faith"

That pretty much says it all there...

"reading the Bible this way, and in this sense we CAN speak of baptismal regeneration...By our baptism we have been reborn in this sense-having died with Christ, we've been raised with Him...because by baptism-by baptism-the Spirit joins us to Christ. Since He is the elect one, and the church is the elect people, we are joined to His body, we therefore are elect. Since He is the justified one, we are justified in Him."

So does this mean that salvation is grace through faith and works? This sounds mighty like Catholicism, but then we generally affirm that the Disciples of Christ which often affirm baptismal regeneration, are Christians, but mistaken.

So presumably from the P in Tulip, they think he has never been a Christian, for that to be a danger.

Not necessarily...

Perseverance of the saints means that all the saints necessarily persevere because God preserves them as well. He could be backslidden, not apostate.

Perhaps it would help you to understand the Reformed definition of apostasy:

RBC Howell said it well, "It is, secondly, necessary that you discriminate carefully, between backsliding, and apostasy. The former is the act of turning back from God; the latter is the forsaking, or the renouncing of the religion of Christ. Backsliding consists either in the relinquishment of evangelical doctrine; or in the loss of spirituality of mind; or in the gradual departure from correct morals. All these evils are embraced in apostasy. The backslider commits transgressions, but returns to his allegiance, and obtains forgiveness, and acceptance. The apostate continues; dies in his sins; and "so eternally perishes." We teach that none of the true children of God--he believing, the pardoned, the regenerated, the sanctified--become apostate, but to backsliding, of every character and degree, all, it is but too evident, even the best, and most devoted, are constantly, and painfully liable."

None of us can know if Wilson is apostate or backslidden. We pray it is the latter, not the former. The one clear example we have of this being said in Scripture about anybody (1 John), was said under the inspiration and authority of the Holy Spirit. No man can, therefore, make declarations about another's salvation for that reason.

 

[Karen]

Thanks Gene,
It may be too soon to expect any other comments, but it is kind of surprising that with all the Calvinists here, only you have responded. On various Calvinist sites, this seems to be an incredibly hot topic.

Karen

 

[pastorjeff]

Originally posted by GeneMBridges:

"reading the Bible this way, and in this sense we CAN speak of baptismal regeneration...By our baptism we have been reborn in this sense-having died with Christ, we've been raised with Him...because by baptism-by baptism-the Spirit joins us to Christ. Since He is the elect one, and the church is the elect people, we are joined to His body, we therefore are elect. Since He is the justified one, we are justified in Him."

So does this mean that salvation is grace through faith and works?

Where is this quote located? I don't see whether his statement is reffering to water baptism or the baptism of the HS. If it is reffering to the baptism of the HS, then it is 100 percent correct. We are joined to Christ by baptism. We find this in Rom. 6.

 

[Broadus]

Originally posted by pastorjeff:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GeneMBridges:

"reading the Bible this way, and in this sense we CAN speak of baptismal regeneration...By our baptism we have been reborn in this sense-having died with Christ, we've been raised with Him...because by baptism-by baptism-the Spirit joins us to Christ. Since He is the elect one, and the church is the elect people, we are joined to His body, we therefore are elect. Since He is the justified one, we are justified in Him."

So does this mean that salvation is grace through faith and works?

Where is this quote located? I don't see whether his statement is reffering to water baptism or the baptism of the HS. If it is reffering to the baptism of the HS, then it is 100 percent correct. We are joined to Christ by baptism. We find this in Rom. 6. </font>

I'm not certain from where the above quote came, but I do think that Wilson is writing about infant, water baptism. It sounds a bit Lutheran in its understanding of baptism and regeneration.

Bill

 

[pastorjeff]

I would have to see the context, because it's not in the posted quote.

 

[Debby in Philly]

Uh, what's a "Credenda?"

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by Debby in Philly:
Uh, what's a "Credenda?"

Credenda means things to be believed.
Credenda Agenda is the magazine published by Doug Wilson and Christ Church in Moscow, ID.

Karen

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi Karen;
Excelent post I wanted to let you know that before I let you know why.

So I have been astonished to find that Doug Wilson has been associated with something called the Auburn Controversy, and that various Calvinists have anathematized him and called on him to repent, that his soul is literally in danger of damnation. So presumably from the P in Tulip, they think he has never been a Christian, for that to be a danger. Apparently the idea is that he has redefined and/or left justification by faith.
Anybody here conversant with what is going on?

I find it hilarious that Calvinist act more like Arminians when it seems to be to there liking.
"anathematized" now theres a word I thought only the Catholics used when someone stepped out of line. How could a Calvinist ever be in danger of damnation. I guess there is more to being a Calvinist than whats on the surface.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[Broadus]

Originally posted by pastorjeff:
I would have to see the context, because it's not in the posted quote.

Jeff,

I found the quote, which evidently comes from a lecture given by Steve Wilkins, at these sites: http://www.founders.org/FJ54/article2_fr.html , http://www.rpcus.com/Controversial.pdf , and http://www.chalcedon.org/counsel/July-August-2002-Body.pdf . All who quote it see it as referring to water baptism and as a modification, at best, of the Reformation understanding of justification by faith.

Bill

 

[russell55]

It may be too soon to expect any other comments, but it is kind of surprising that with all the Calvinists here, only you have responded. On various Calvinist sites, this seems to be an incredibly hot topic.

This is largely a Presbyterian issue--a paedobaptist thing.

 

[Monergist]

Originally posted by russell55:
This is largely a Presbyterian issue--a paedobaptist thing.

I'm starting to see John Armstrong (Baptist) associated with this as well. Here's some comments from Armstrong about it:

Auburn Avenue Presbyterian Church:

 

[Monergist]

I saw an article on James White's website earlier that was about an article from Wilson in the latest Credend Agenda in which he tries to separate himself from the whole Auburn thing. I hope ther's something to that.

I don't really have a grasp of all the issues and most of what I do know is second-hand. I do believe that of all the ones being accused of heresy, he is probably the most orthodox. I've found his books on the family and education to be TOP NOTCH, but I'm extremely cautious with everything else.

 

[GeneMBridges]

Originally posted by pastorjeff:
I would have to see the context, because it's not in the posted quote.

Sorry, that last quote was from Doug Wilson, also part of the Auburn Controversy, "The Legacy of the Half-Way Covenant" lecture delivered at the Auburn Pastor's Conference.


Douglas Wilson (Credenda Agenda, Vol. 13, Number 2, p.16) speaking of John 15: "All this means that a man can be genuinely attached to Christ and yet bear no fruit. He is as attached as the fruit-bearing branch is. They both partake of the root and fatness of the tree. Sap flows to both branches. The fruitless branch tastes the heavenly gift. He has been enlightened (Heb. 6:4). And when the process of apostasy comes to completion, he tramples underfoot the blood of the covenant, by which he was sanctified." (Heb. 10:29).

Note: This affirms antinominianism.

 

[Wilander]

Gene, Thanks for joining in. As you say, it's a serious problem in Reformed churches, whether Baptist or Presbyterian. I've seen churches rightly split and remove their pastor because of it.

 

[GeneMBridges]

I find it hilarious that Calvinist act more like Arminians when it seems to be to there liking.

On the contrary, we do not hold to eternal security, we hold to peseverance of the saints. We do not believe a person can lose his salvation, but we also affirm that there must be fruit-bearing in a person's life that validates their salvation. It need not be perfect, and no Christian can apostacize. This has nothing to do with our "liking," it has to do with what we have always taught, not the caricature you mock. If you want to mock eternal security, talk to your nonReformed/Arminian buddies here that believe in it, because they do not affirm any perseverance is necessary at all.

anathematized" now theres a word I thought only the Catholics used when someone stepped out of line.

Calvinists believe VERY strongly in the concept of church discipline and always have. Once again, you show you have no grasp of what Reformed theology teaches in these matters either doctrinally or in terms of church practice. Some of these persons involved may be affirming core errors that one could say may indicate they are not saved at all; however, assuming they are saved men, these are serious errors that will affect the way they approach Scripture, do evangelism, and a whole host of other issues. Wilson is the most orthodox, but some of the others are kinda "out there."