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Crucifixion: Thursday or Friday?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Siegfried, Jan 31, 2003.

  1. Siegfried

    Siegfried Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Likes Received:
    What are the strongest arguments for or against each day.

    I'm particularly interested in:

    1. The "silent Wednesday" in the Friday view
    2. The back-to-back Sabbath idea
    3. Galilean vs. Judean observation of the Passover
    4. Jewish reckoning of days and nights

    Don't let that list intimidate you from expressing your thoughts. Those are just the more technical issues I've encountered in my research, and those for which I particularly need answers.
  2. Caretaker

    Caretaker <img src= /drew.gif>

    May 20, 2002
    Likes Received:
    There is another view, that Jesus
    was crucified on Wednesday, with a high Sabbath commencing at sundown on Wednesday, and the resurrection occuring just after sundown on Saturday,(which would have been the start of the Jewish first day of the week). It is helpful to remember that the Jewish day began at sundown and ended at sundown.


    Mat 12:38-40 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah: For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


    Lets begin with a few definitions in order to fully understand the text.

    A day is defined in Genesis 1:4-5 as having two portions, the darkness and then the light. A biblical day runs from around 6pm to 6pm. We come out of the darkness (6pm to 6am) into the light (6am to 6pm). Additionally, the 6am to noon time of the day is considered the morning of the day and from noon to 6pm the evening of the day. To this day, Jews observe a day as beginning in the evening and ending in the evening 24 hours later.

    Sabbath is from Friday around 6pm (varies depending on the time of year) and ends the same time on Saturday. The Orthodox observe a 25 hour Sabbath by adding an extra hour to the end as a means of safeguarding themselves from ending the Sabbath rest too early as the timing is based upon the sighting of the moon from Israel.


    "Sabbath" does not refer to Saturday as many people assume. If you refer to the book of Leviticus, chapter 23, you can see that Sabbath means "Day of Holy Convocation" where no work is to be preformed. The day prior to a Sabbath is referred to as a Day of Preparation. Annual Sabbaths (High Sabbaths) are designated by the date, not the day of the week. In weeks when a Day of Holy Convocation occurs on a Sunday through Friday, there are 2 'Sabbaths', the day of the holiday and the last day of the week.

    Here are the 7 Sabbaths of the Lord (one weekly and 6 High):
    * The 7th day of the week
    * The Feast of Unleavened Bread (day after Passover)
    * Shavout (Pentecost)
    * Rosh Hashana
    * Yom Kippur
    * First day of Tabernacles (Sukkot)
    * 8th (last) day of Tabernacles

    Passover This holiday is observed on the 14th of Nisan. It is the Day of Preparation for the Feast of Unleavened bread, which is 15 Nisan. The Feast of Unleavened bread is a Holy Convocation or Sabbath day (Leviticus 23: 5-7). Exodus 12 tells the story of the Passover and deliverance from Egypt. Seders (dinners) are eaten on both nights and the 14th is the preparation day for the 15th.

    The Gospels Account

    Now that we have some definitions laid out, lets look at the accounting from the Gospels. If Jesus was truly crucified on a Friday and arose the following Sunday, that would only give us 2 nights and 1 day as opposed to the 3 nights and 3 days that He Himself said that he would be in the earth. For His words to ring true, He would have to arisen sometime Monday evening if this were the case.

    On top of this, to truly be three days and three nights, He would have to have arisen at the same time of day that he was laid in the grave. Matthew 16:21 is very clear that He would be raised the third day. Not after it, but on it.
    We know from the gospels that Jesus partook of the Passover seder the night of the first half of the preparation day. (Matthew 26:17, Mark 14:12, Luke 22:18, John 13:29)

    Additionally, we are told that Jesus was crucified on the second (daylight) half of the preparation day (Mathew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54 John 19:31, 42).

    We know that the Passover is the preparation day for the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
    How do we know that this Sabbath reference is to the Feast of Unleavened Bread and not the regular

    Saturday Sabbath?
    Jhn 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.

    We know that that tomb was found empty just after the Sabbath (Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6, John 20:2)

    Now lets take a look at the timing of the events of that fateful day.

    Matthew 27:1 Jesus is brought to trial in the morning
    Matthew 27:45 There is darkness from noon (the 6th hour) until 3pm (the ninth hour)
    Matthew 27:46-50 Jesus died at 3pm (the ninth hour)
    Matthew 27:57 Joseph of Arimathea comes for the body of Jesus in order to bury him prior to the Sabbath.
    Matthew 27:64 The next day (night of the crucifixion) the leaders sealed the tomb for three days.

    From there we can count forward.
    Wednesday Night - Thursday Night: darkness then light #1
    Thursday Night - Friday Night: darkness then light #2
    Friday Night - Saturday Night: darkness then light #3

    For Jesus to have spent exactly 3 days and three nights in the earth, He had to be resurrected at the same time that he was entombed - in this case, just before sunset on Saturday as He was laid in the tomb just prior to the beginning of the Holy Day. If He didn't then His words don't hold true!

    Objections addressed

    Now - the two most common questions that arise out of this is the issue of Mary and Mary Magdaline finding the tomb empty after the Sabbath and the men walking to Emmaus on the first day of the week.

    Keeping in mind the biblical timing of a 'day', the first day of the week would begin at sundown on Saturday and run until sundown on Sunday.
    Mary and Mary Magdaline came to the tomb to anoint the body with oils - what they found was an empty tomb. An angel announced to them that Christ had risen. What is important to note here is the tense of the Greek word used for rise - egeiro indicating third party passive, perfect (aorist) tense. (Matt 28:7, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6). The women arrived after the fact, not during the event itself.

    In Luke 24:21, we see an accounting of two men walking to Emmaus lamenting on the events that had transpired.
    Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

    Now, this event is written to have taken place on the first day of the week. No dispute there. What we DO need to question however; is what they are referring to as the things that were done.

    A cursory review of Matthew 27:61-66 shows us the completion of these "things" to be completed. "These things" included all the events pertaining to the resurrection — the seizing of Christ, delivering Him to be tried, the actual crucifixion, and, finally the setting of the seal and the watch over the tomb the following day, or Thursday.

    Sunday being the 3rd day from Thursday further supports the fact that Christ was not crucified on a Friday.


    I came across this some time ago, and saved it on my word file. I can not remember the source, but it seems to address the issue.

    A servant of Christ,
  3. Andrey

    Andrey New Member

    Mar 27, 2002
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    Caretaker, I was about to start a post on this, when I saw your reply.

    All I can now add is:

    "Well done, good and faithful servant!"

    I am convinced, through careful reading of scripture over two decades, that Jesus was crucified on a Wednesday just before sundown, and resurrected on Saturday, just before sundown.

    But the key is not what day He died, but our understanding that it is very easy to misunderstand God's message. To follow "groupthink" is wrong, whether in a popular novel or in a church. God wants us to follow Him, not our pastor nor our denomination if it comes to choosing.

    For many of us, we have chosen to follow the wrong leader, and it is sad.

    "Jesus in not your Savior if He is not your Lord".
  4. Caretaker

    Caretaker <img src= /drew.gif>

    May 20, 2002
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    Thank you Brother Andrey, and God bless you. We must always place the glorious Word of God first and foremost in our hearts and in our daily walk with Him. If any teaching or tradition contradicts God's Word, we must rsject it and follow our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Here is the second part of the document from my word file, and again I apologize for it has been on there for a long time, and I do not remember the source.


    The Origins of "Easter"

    Many people are surprised to learn the pagan origins of Easter. Yes, it is referenced in the Bible - Acts 12:4 (KJV). Easter has been observed as a pagan holiday for hundreds of years before the birth, death and resurrection of Christ.
    This holiday is marked as the first Sunday after the first full moon occurs on or after March 21st. The reasoning for the timing is the vernal equinox - when the day and night are exactly the same amount of time.

    This holiday commemorates Astarte and her son, Tammuz. On this date, the ancient pagans would dye and hide eggs as a symbol of Astarte's fertility. Other names for this fertility goddess include Ashterah, Esther, Aurora and Eostre. The symbol of the latter was the hare - 'Estore's hare' which evolved in name to become the 'Easter bunny'.

    The Church's Adoption of Easter

    After the death of the apostles, the church spread and grew at an amazing rate. The problem was that the written word was not only expensive to copy for people but many were illiterate and could not read it if they had access to a copy. Scriptural interpretation was left to the elders of the church.

    People were following different traditions during this time. The early Jewish believers were following the traditions of the feasts and Sabbath worship, while the newly converted gentile believers were following their pagan traditions and holidays, including Sunday worship.

    The Early Church Fathers (ECF) wanted clarity and continuity in Christianity. They took the issue of the differing observances to their political leader of the day, Constantine. Constantine agreed that they should chose to distance themselves from the Jewish believers and their traditions in lieu of the pagans and their traditions. This became known as Constantine's Sunday Edict. He declared Sunday as the official day of worship and enacted it on March 7th, 321ad.

    People had been observing the crucifixion up until this point on the day of Passover, this date varying annually due to the differences between the Biblical calendar and the Roman one. For clarity and continuity, Constantine then declared at the Council of Nicene in 325ad that Easter will now be celebrated on the holiday of Estarte, the first Sunday following the vernal equinox, always to be between March 22 and April 25th. This was known as his Easter Edict.

    Now here is the irony....

    The Lord is very clear on worshipping gods other than Him. He is very clear about worshipping a "queen" of Heaven (Jeremiah 44).

    So why did the early Roman Church declare Easter Sunday one of the holiest days of the year, yet name it after a pagan fertility goddess?

    Bottom Line

    I am not saying that Sunday worship or Easter observance is wrong, all I have attempted to do here is give the scriptural accounting of the events up to and after the death of Jesus to His resurrection and the history of the Church traditions.

    Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.


    My feeling is that I shall reject Rome's observation of the celebration of easter, and will celebrate the death, burial, and resurrection of my Lord my God, in conjunction with the celebration of Passover, for He is our Passover Lamb, and it is so important to remember the Biblical context of the single most important event in all the history of humanity.

    May God so bless His precious children.

    A servant of Christ,

    Psalm 51:10
    Create in me a clean heart, O'God, and renew a right spirit within me.
  5. bcrowder49

    bcrowder49 Guest

    Great Study. I have a web site and I posted the following study. You would not believe the "guff" I have received.

    How could Jesus be crucified on Friday, rise from the dead on Sunday morning and still be in the grave for three days and three nights?

    If we use the calendar of today and try to put that timeline into the scripture there does seem to be an issue. For example, this year 2002, Easter was celebrated on March 31st. The calendar shows that “Good Friday” was March 29th. How could Jesus have died on the 29th and be raised on the 31st. I am not a mathematician, but that is only two nights and a day, not three days and nights as Christ promised.
    There are many things to consider.
    Sabbath Day (Hebrew Shabbat)
    The normal Sabbath day in the Jewish society is from sundown Friday evening until sundown on Saturday every seven days.
    There are actually a number of Sabbath’s.
    There is a Sabbath on the first day of the seventh month.
    Leviticus 23:23-25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a Sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
    Every seven years the actual land of Israel was to have a Sabbath or rest and lie fallow.
    Leviticus 25:3-4 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof; But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
    Every seven-year cycle of seven years was to be followed by a fiftieth year of Jubilee
    Leviticus 25:8-11 And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed.
    The major Jewish festivals, Passover (Unleavened Bread), Shavuot (Pentecost), Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets), Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) and Sukkoth (Tabernacles) were characterized by days of rest. Leviticus chapter 23:3 The Sabbath day is the first of the holy convocations God bestowed on the nation of Israel.
    To allow the body to remain on the cross until the next day was a violation of Jewish law.
    Deuteronomy 21:22-23 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
    The day in which Jesus the Christ was put to death was the “day of preparation.” In the book of John we read, “The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. John 19:31
    The day of preparation was the day that all things were made ready for the Sabbath. All chores around the house, all other work and foods were prepared so that there would be no breaking of the Sabbath day laws. Everything was to be accomplished before the Sabbath day began.
    This particular day of preparation was made even more significant by John’s words that this was “an high day.” In the calendar this was the highest day of all. This was the first Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the most sacred season of the whole Jewish ecclesiastical year.
    In his fine book “The Feasts of Israel, Bruce Scott talks about the Sabbath and the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
    Of course, a key element in the observance of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is the bread itself. Bread eaten during the seven festival days could not contain any leavening or fermenting ingredient (Ex. 12:18-20). Furthermore, all hametz (food products containing leaven) had to be removed from the home. To accomplish this mandate, specific rituals were developed. The process is called nullification.
    The procedure for nullification begins even before the festival arrives. It starts with a thorough spring-cleaning of the home. Old dishes and cutlery are stored away, and fresh Passover ones takes their place. All food products that contain any trace of leaven are discarded. Only goods marked "Kosher for Passover" are purchased. People who have large quantities of leavened products in the home and would suffer significant financial loss by destroying them are permitted to sell them to non-Jewish people and buy them back after the holiday.
    The next step in the process of nullification takes place on the evening of the 14th of Nisan. Using the light of one candle, a search for leaven is conducted throughout the house. Any leaven found-which usually includes a few strategically placed crumbs here and there-is swept into a wooden spoon with a feather. The father then recites a prayer nullifying the leaven: "Any leaven and leavening which is in my possession and which I have neither seen, nor destroyed, nor known of, is to be as naught, and as ownerless as the dust of the earth."1 The next morning, the prayer is repeated as the feather, wooden spoon, and any leaven that turned up during the search are burned, thus ending the process of nullification.
    During the days of the Second Temple, Jewish people were instructed by the priests when to have all the hametz removed from their homes and destroyed. The priests would lay two loaves of the thank offering (Lev. 7: 13) that were no longer edible on the roof of the Temple portico for everyone to see. When they removed one loaf, the people were no longer permitted to eat anything containing leaven. When they removed the second loaf, it signaled the time for the burning of the hametz, at which time bonfires were lit all around Jerusalem.
    It is important that the leaven be removed from the home before midday on the 14th, because in Temple days the Passover sacrifice was slain in late afternoon. Since the paschal sacrifice was not to be offered with leaven (Ex. 34:25), all leaven had to be eliminated during the morning hours.
    Nullification may include either a physical destruction of the hametz or a mental renunciation. The Mishnah allows people who are away from home and are not able to return to destroy leaven in their possession to "annul it in his heart."
    In Second Temple days, once the leaven had been removed from the premises, it was time to take the chosen Passover lamb to the Temple for sacrifice. (There were so many pilgrims in Jerusalem at Passover [more than two million on one occasion] that the noise of the people and their animals could be heard far away.) Before the holiday commenced, messengers were sent out to the surrounding areas to tell everyone who had flocks and herds to bring them to Jerusalem so that there would be sufficient animals available for the pilgrims to sacrifice and eat.
    As people arrived at the Temple Mount with their Passover lambs, which could range in age from eight days to one year old, they awaited the opening of the Temple courtyard doors. The priests then permitted the people to enter the courtyard and divided the crowd into three groups. As the first group entered, the gates were closed behind them and the shofar (ram's horn) was sounded. The stones of the altar and the ramp leading to the altar, as well s the Temple sanctuary itself had been whitewashed with plaster just for this occasion. The sight of the sparkling clean Temple area must have been magnificent.
    What does Christ have to say about his death, burial and resurrection?
    Jesus in order to show that he was the Messiah referred to the Old Testament story of Jonas, which every Jew knew. He answered the scribes and Pharisees after they told him that they “would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:38-40
    This doesn’t fit today’s version of Jesus dying on Friday and being raised early in the morning on Sunday. As my dad used to say, “You just can not put ten pounds of flour in a five pound bag.”
    Did Jesus really mean what He said? Was he really saying that he expected to be buried in the earth for three days and three nights? Interestingly enough, Jesus did not say, "After two nights and one day I will rise again." He said, "After three days I will rise again." He meant three days and three nights. Only a full 72 hours would fulfill his prophecy!
    There are other teachings that support this stand.
    Mark 8:31 - And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
    After Christ was given into the hands of those that would crucify him, the Jewish elders remembered his promise and asked Pilate to have the tomb secured and guarded. Matthew records the exchange as follows:
    27:62-64 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
    I find it interesting that the chief priests and Pharisees were in such distress that they actually break the very law they were so righteously defending by asking for Christ’s death, to participate in this venture on the highest day (high sabbath) of the Jewish year. These guys were taking no chances. They would not fall under the lie of “dead on Friday, revived day after tomorrow.”
    Their fear of Christ’s proclamation caused them to break the Sabbath, work an agreement with the ruling secular leadership, hold somebody else responsible to seal and watch the tomb until after the time required. No, they were taking no chances.
    Passover 2002
    Passover 2002, a high day, began at sundown March 27th and continued through sundown March 28th. The next Sabbath, regular Sabbath, began on March 29th. Hence in this week, in this year we have two Sabbath’s within the same week preceding Easter. This is a perfect example of how the scriptures are so clearly in line with prophecy and no one has to “monkey around with the scriptures to make them fit into a nice box.” This week is the same setup as when Christ was crucified.
  6. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Feb 7, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Caretaker, [​IMG]

    Not a popular perspective, but right on the mark! Too many people rely on "tradition" or what they've always been taught rather than doing the research. Double thumbs up on this one! Great job! [​IMG] [​IMG]
  7. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

    Jun 17, 2001
    Likes Received:
    Seigfreid, It's late and I don't have much time right now to go into all of the chronology.
    However I will attempt to address your silent Wednesday question.

    There was no silent Wednesday.
    The triumphal entry occured on Monday, not "Palm" Sunday.
    {Another tradition bites the dust.}

    The Mosaic requirement for Passover was that the sacrificial lamb be selected on the 10th day of the first month and sacrifice on the 14th.
    In AD 30 {or 33} this would have been Monday.
    Jesus fulfilled all the Law of Moses so He would have been chosen as the Lamb 4 days before being sacrificed.
    Even if it were Sunday, this would require that the sacrifice be on Thursday, not Wed.

    I have also read where the Jews considered any part of a day to be a day, therefore a day and two nights would be considered three days.

    Another point to consider is that, according to Josephus, the Jews from the Northern Kingdom, where Jesus was from, calculated a day from sunrise to sunrise.
    The Southern Kingdom went from sundown to sundown.
    The accomodation was made to the Northerners for convenience sake.
    Many lambs had to be sacrificed in a two hour period. This variation allowed it to extend to two.

    Note that the Jewish leaders would not enter the
    the Praetorium where Jesus was being held lest they be defiled for the Passover.
    They had not yet eaten it and Jesus and his disciples had already done so.

    Of further note is the fact that when Pilate agreed to Jesus crucifiction, "it was the day of preparation for the Passover." {John 19:14}
    John also specifically recounts that Jesus died at the prescribed time of sacrifice for the Passover lambs-from three to five on Passover day.
    The "Southern" Passover day.

    I need to get to bed. If any of this has any bearing on the topic at hand, respond and I'll continue tomorrow. Or the next day.

    Good night, all.

  8. Caretaker

    Caretaker <img src= /drew.gif>

    May 20, 2002
    Likes Received:
    Fast of First Born - Seudat Mitzvah Erev Pesach Wednesday April 16, 2003
    14 Nissan 5763 First born fast or participate in Seudat Mitzvah.Stop eating chometz approx. four hours after sunrise.Passover begins at sundown with first Seder.

    1st day of Passover Thursday April 17, 2003 15 Nissan 5763 Second Seder begins after sundown. Counting of the Omer begins after sundown.

    2nd day of Passover Friday April 18, 2003 16 Nissan 5763

    3rd day of Passover Saturday April 19, 2003 17 Nissan 5763

    4th day of Passover Sunday April 20, 2003 18 Nissan 5763

    5th day of Passover Monday April 21, 2003 19 Nissan 5763

    6th day of Passover Tuesday April 22, 2003 20 Nissan 5763

    7th day of Passover Wednesday April 23, 2003 21 Nissan 5763

    8th day of Passover Thursday April 24, 2003 22 Nissan 5763 Yizkor


    Chronology of the Crucifiction

    Matthew 16 v 13 Jesus sets out way up north near Caesarea Philipii, (25 miles north of Capernaum). Caesarea Philipi was founded, (prob. early) during Tiberias' reign by Philip the Tetrarch near the source of the river Jordan, Jos. BJ p138.

    Matthew 16 v 21 Jesus announces that he is going to Jerusalem.

    Matthew 16 v 21b He says: 'On the third day to be raised.'

    Matthew 17 v 1 After six days Jesus ascends a mountain, (Mt. Hermon?) with a few disciples and is transfigured.

    Matthew 17 v 22 Walking through Galilee & says 'On the third day he will be raised,

    Mark 9 v 31 Passing through Galilee, Jesus tells His disciples that He would be killed and rise again 'after three days'.

    Matthew 17 v 24 Mark 9 v 33 Jesus enters Capernaum.

    Matthew 19 v 1 Mark 10 v 1 . Jesus leaves Galilee and crosses the Jordan heading south

    Matthew 20 v 19 Mark 10 v 32b - 34 'On the third day, he will be raised.'

    Matthew 20 v 29 Mark 10 v 46 Jesus leaves Jerico, (lunchtime, 7th Nisan?) and heads for Jerusalem, (12 miles).

    John 12 v 1 Jesus arrives at Bethany, 6 days before Passover, 8th Nisan, evening, just after sunset. Stays 1.5 days.

    John 12 v 9 - 11 Chief priests plot to kill Lazarus as well as Jesus, daytime, 8th Nisan.

    John 12 v 12 Crowds of festival goers hear that Jesus will enter Jerusalem, daytime, 9th Nisan.

    Mark 11 v 1 Jesus starts out from Bethany to enter Jerusalem on the colt.

    John 12 v 13 - 19 Jesus starts his procession into Jerusalem, afternoon, 9th Nisan.

    Matthew 21 v 10 Jesus enters Jerusalem at sunset and cleanses the Temple, late evening the start of 10th Nisan, regular Sabbath day, (Saturday). Exodus 12 v 3 - 10th Nisan was the day that the Lamb entered the house.

    Matthew 21 v 17 Mark 11 v 11 He entered at 'the hour' and looked round because it was late. At nightfall, start of 10th Nisan, Jesus leaves the Temple and lodges in Bethany.

    Matthew 21 v 18 Jesus travels from Bethany into Jerusalem, early morning, 10th Nissan.

    Matthew 21 v 19 - 22 Mark 11 v 12 - 14 Jesus curses the fig tree on his way into Jerusalem, early morning 10th Nisan.

    Matthew 21 v 23 to 23 v 39. Jesus enters the Temple. Public teaching in the Temple, daytime 10th Nisan.

    Mark 11 v 15 More Temple cleansing of traders etc.

    Mark 11 v 20 The following morning, (daytime 11th Nisan) they pass the fig tree again and see it has withered.

    Mark 11 v 28 - 33 Mark 12 v 1 ff. Mark 12 v 14 Public teaching in the Temple. John the Baptist mentioned by Jesus. Parable of the Tenants. Taxes to Caesar. Daytime 11th Nisan

    Matthew 24 v 1 to 25 v 13 Mark 13 v 1 ff. Private teachings, evening as Jesus leaves the Temple, (Evening, end of 11th Nisan and the start of 12th Nisan).

    Matthew 25 v 14 to 25 v 46 . More public teaching?

    Matthew 26 v 2 Two days prior to Passover, (Evening, start of 12th Nisan) Jesus finishes teaching and predicts that he will be arrested at Passover, 'after two days.'

    Matthew 26 v 2 - 3 Mark 14 v 1 - 2 Two days before Passover, 12th Nisan, the Chief Priests and the Elders meet in the court of the high Priest and decide to kill Jesus before the [official] feast begins.

    Matthew 26 v 6 - 16 Mark 14 v 3 Mark 14 v 10 - 14 Evening, start of 13th Nisan, Jesus is in Bethany eating at the house of Simon the leper. Judas plans to betray Jesus.

    Luke 22 v 7 John 13 v 1 Mark 14 v 12 Jesus celebrated the first day of Unleavened Bread as the Passover when the passover lamb was killed.

    Matthew 26 v 17 Mark 14 v 17 Jesus ate the Passover on the first day of unleavened bread 14th Nisan which began at sunset. Exodus 12 v 6

    Matthew 26 v 20 Mark 14 v 22 Late evening after sunset, (Ophias) start of 14th Nisan, Jesus eats the Passover with His disciples. Exodus 12 v 8

    John 18 v 1 - 2 Mark 14 v 26 & 32 Mark 14 v 30 Jesus crosses the Kidron valley and enters the garden, of Gethsemany on the Mt. of Olives. On the way Jesus says to Peter TODAY in this night before two cock crows he would deny Him.

    Mark 14 v 49 Jesus had taught daily in the Temple.

    Matthew 26 v 55 - 57 John 18 v 3 - 12 Jesus is arrested at night 14th Nisan and taken to the court of Caiaphas the High Priest.
    John 18 v 13 At Caiaphas' court, Jesus is questioned by Annas first.

    Matthew 26 v 55 John 18 v 19 - 24 Whilst being questioned by Annas, Jesus said that He had taught in the Temple daily, (see above).

    Matthew 26 v 61 Mark 14 v 58 Another record of Jesus' statement that He would be dead three days. Mark has 'not made with hands'

    Matthew 26 v 74 John 18 v 27 Mark 14 v 72 Peter denies Jesus for the third time at dawn, (Court of the High Priest - Caiaphas).

    Matthew 27 v 1 John 18 v 28 Mark 15 v 1 Jesus is delivered by a council the Elders and the Chief Priests to Pilate the governor early in the morning. The Jews do not enter the praetorium lest they be defiled and unable to eat the (official) Passover.

    John 18 v 39 Mark 15 v 6 - 8 Pilate confirms that the official Passover was near, offering to release a prisoner as was the custom.

    Mark 15 v 25 Jesus was crucified at the third hour, (9 a.m.), daytime 14th Nisan.

    John 19 v 14 Preparation day, 14th Nisan 'about the 6th hour,' Pilate decides to execute Jesus.

    Mark 15 v 21 Simon of Cyrene is coming into Jerusalem probably for the feast when he is pressed to carry the cross.

    Matthew 27 v 38 Jesus was crucified first, then the two robbers

    Matthew 27 v 40 Mark 15 v 29 Another record of Jesus' statement that He would be dead three days.

    Matthew 27 v 45 Mark 15 v 33 Darkness occurred over all the land or earth from the 6th to the 9th hour. c.f. Exodus 10 v 21 - 22 - during the original Passover it was dark for three days!

    Matthew 27 v 46 Mark 15 v 37 Jesus died at the ninth hour

    Matthew 27 v 50 - 51 Mark 15 v 38 Earthquake and Temple curtain torn at the instant Jesus died.

    Matthew 27 v 57 John 19 v 31- 42 Mark 15 v 42 Late evening, at or soon after sunset, (Ophias), start of 15th Nisan, (official Passover). Burial of Jesus by Joseph in his own tomb. Mark has - 'it was the day before the Sabbaths' - pleural.

    Matthew 27 v 62 The chief priests and the Pharisees meet Pilate the day after Preparation, 15th Nisan, (official passover).

    Matthew 27 v 63 Record of Jesus' saying, 'After three days I am raised.'

    Matthew 27 v 64 Guard placed on Jesus' tomb on the day after Preparation day, Nisan 15th, (see v 62) 'until after the third day'

    Matthew 28 v 1 John 20 v 1 Multiple Sabbaths preceded the resurrection.

    Matthew 28 v 1 Exact time of the resurrection, Regular Sabbath, 17th Nisan, 9th hour

    Matthew 28 v 2 John 20 v 1 Mark 16 v1 Earthquake on Saturday, c. 11th hour. Just before sunset, Mary Magdelane arrives and gets ready to embalm Jesus' body.

    Matthew 28 v 6 Jesus was raised at the time He predicted, (i.e. after 3 days).

    John 20 v 1 - 2 Mark 16 v 2 Sunset, start of 18th Nisan, (Saturday night) Mary witnesses the stone being rolled away and runs back to tell Peter and John. Mark places these events at sunrise 12 hours later!

    John 20 v 3 - 10 Peter and John rush to the tomb and find it empty. They return home without seeing Jesus, but the way the grave clothes are convinces them that Jesus is alive from the dead.

    John 20 v 11 - 18 Mary Magdelane meets Jesus. (At first, she did not recognise Him, probably because it was becoming dark.)

    John 20 v 19 The Ten see Jesus together, during the twilight hour after sunset, 18th Nisan, (Saturday night).

    John 20 v 26 The Eleven including Thomas see Jesus together. Eight days later, just after sunset at the start of 26th Nisan, (Sunday night).

    A servant of Christ,
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator

    Jun 30, 2000
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    Good thoughts, but remember to understand Jesus words "On the third day" or "three days and three nights" as an idiom of the Hebrew language.

    [Aside: An idiom is a place in grammar where words do NOT have their literal meaning, but when used in a certain way, take on a special meaning that goes beyond the scope of normal language. If I say "kick the bucket", YOU all know what it means. But a poor immigrant would look up all three words and be totally WRONG in assessment of what we mean.]

    To prove that a person was genuinely dead, the Jews had a rule to wait a few days to make sure they were NOT in a coma or such, and that decomposition had begun.

    (Read story of Eleazar, Miriam and Marta when Jesus raised him from the dead in Beit'Ain - it was past the normal waiting period and they were aghast that the body (now stinketh) would be touched.)

    Back to the point at hand. Jesus uses that same idiomatic language to say "After everyone's sure I'm dead . . . " That is what "three days" or "three days and three nights" meant to a Jew.

    Not a listing of 72 consecutive hours!
  10. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

    Mar 20, 2002
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    Dr. Bob, is the usage in Jonah an idiom too?

    Jonah 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

    Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Edit: do you have any evidence that the phrase was an idiom? Where is it used as such? Why is it not literal, because the literal meaning makes sense. Isn't the cry of the literalists "when the concrete, literal meaning makes sense, seek no other sense"?
  11. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Sep 16, 2002
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    I would think Thursday, but I am studying the Wednesday idea with interest.
  12. rufus

    rufus New Member

    Jan 20, 2003
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    I vote WEDNESDAY, good brothers and sisters!

    Rufus [​IMG]
  13. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

    Jun 17, 2001
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    What does the Bible say, clearly, about the day of His crucifiction?

    John 19:30. When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed
    His head and gave up His spirit.
    31. Now it was the day of Preparation, and the NEXT DAY was to be a special SABBATH. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crossed during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

    Those who insist on moving the day of the crucifiction must also somhow move the Sabbath from the seventh day, which is impossible.

  14. Caretaker

    Caretaker <img src= /drew.gif>

    May 20, 2002
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    Nobody is "moving" anything. In its anti-semitism the Catholic Church "moved" the date of the crucifiction to remove it from Passover. We are seeking to clarify and support the glorious truth of God's Word. There were annual Sabbath days, as well as the 7th day Sabbath observance. The annual Sabbath, the Feast of Unleavened Bread occured during the week prior to the regular Saturday Sabbath.

    Here are the 7 Sabbaths of the Lord (one weekly and 6 High):
    * The 7th day of the week
    * The Feast of Unleavened Bread (day after Passover)
    * Shavout (Pentecost)
    * Rosh Hashana
    * Yom Kippur
    * First day of Tabernacles (Sukkot)
    * 8th (last) day of Tabernacles

    Passover This holiday is observed on the 14th of Nisan. It is the Day of Preparation for the Feast of Unleavened bread, which is 15 Nisan. The Feast of Unleavened bread is a Holy Convocation or Sabbath day (Leviticus 23: 5-7). Exodus 12 tells the story of the Passover and deliverance from Egypt. Seders (dinners) are eaten on both nights and the 14th is the preparation day for the 15th.

    We seek to substantiate that our Lord Jesus Christ meant it when He said that He would be three days and three nights in the ground.

    For myself I reject any apostasy of Rome, such as "good Friday", and easter. My Lord Jesus Christ is the Passover Lamb of God, and so I seek Biblical truth as a higher authority over the traditions of man.

    A servant of Christ,
  15. bcrowder49

    bcrowder49 Guest

    The story here is that there are many sabbaths. Please read my reply. I was one of those that fell for Josh McDowells rendering, like some who have answered, and it just didn't make sense. If you believe the Bible as the Word of God, then it cannot have errors nor can you try to explain away items by the use of idioms.
    Just look at my reply, study the verses and you see that, Glory to God, the Word is infallible.
  16. Aki

    Aki New Member

    Nov 2, 2001
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    let us see.

    here is one truth:

    - that Jesus Christ will be in the grave for three days and three nights. that is, a 72-hour timeframe.

    and here is one fact:

    that Jesus resurrected on a Sunday, at a very early time.

    based on these, a good idea to do is to count backwards. starting then on the early sunday, our first day count is the evening and morning of Saturday, then the evening and morning of Friday, then the evening and morning of thursday. thus, thursday is to be counted as a "grave-day", and more precisely the first "grave-day"! therefore crucifixion must have occured wednesday.

    all other data must be the ones to adjust on the wednesday crucifixion, because the it is definite that Jesus must have been in the grave three days and three nights, and nothing less!
  17. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

    Jun 17, 2001
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    The problem I am unable to resolve is that every Jewish calendar I have pulled up for Nisan 30 C.E.
    has shown that Passover was on Friday.
    Any surrounding year,if one calls into doubt the year of the crucifiction, does not include Thursday.

    Jesus and the disciples did NOT, repeat, NOT reckon time from sundown to sundown as did their counterparts from the Southern Kingdom, if this has any bearing on your thesis, Caretaker.

    However, I don't see the correct day as being any cause for concern as long as it was on the day that God required it, and we can be sure it was.
    Whether we know it for sure is not crucial to doctrine.
    At least I don't think so.

    As the Feast of Unleavened Bread is not considered a Sabbath {it lasted a week, caretaker, not a day} except for the final day of it, I fail to see how this would explain a Thursday crucifiction.

    If it was indeed on Thursday, well enough.

    He rose.

  18. Caretaker

    Caretaker <img src= /drew.gif>

    May 20, 2002
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    I believe the 14th of Nissan, 31AD, was on a Wednesday which would concur with a Wednesday crucifiction, and the same hour that Jesus died was the hour of the sacrifice of the Passover lambs in the temple.

    Lev. 23:
    3: Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
    4: These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
    5: In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.
    6: And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
    7: In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

    The passage in Lev. shows the first day of Unleavened Bread to ALSO be a Sabbath. This shows the Day of preparation had to be concluded, the men had to be dead and off the crosses, for the extra Sabbath day, which began at sundown on Wednesday.

    A servant of Christ,
  19. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

    Jun 17, 2001
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    I guess I'm not understanding your thesis as very well.
    Let me know if I have it yet...

    Jesus died the day before the feast of unleavened bread began, on the day of preparation.

    The day of preparation spoken of was for the first day of the feast of unleavened bread which was the Sabbath spoken of.
    {You are correct that the first day of the feast was also a Sabbath. I misread Leviticus earlier.}

  20. mountainrun

    mountainrun New Member

    Jun 17, 2001
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    I found this interesting Jewish point of view on the 72 hours requirement for Jesus words on geocity.

    Another way to look at "three days and three nights" is to take into consideration the Jewish method of reckoning time. the Jewish writers have recorded in their commentaries on the Scriptures the principle governing the reckoning of time. Any part of a period was considered a full period. Any part of a day was reckoned as a complete day. The Babylonian Talmud (Jewish commentaries) relates that, "The portion of a day is as the whole of it." (Mishnah, Third Tractate, "B. Pesachim," p. 4a)

    The Jerusalem Talmud (so designated because it was written in Jerusalem) says, "We have a teaching, 'A day and a night are an Onah and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it.' " (Mishnah, Tractate "J. Shabbath," Chapter IX, Par. 3) An Onah simply means, "a period of time."

    It is as Dr. Bob said. Any part of a day is as a full day to the Jews. Even if they call it a day and a night.

    Caretaker, your thesis requires that Jesus be crucified in 31 C.E. .
    That is the only reason for believing that 31 was the correct year.
    The most commonly accepted years are 30 or 33, for the same reason. It fits with the Friday crucifiction.

    As you can see from both the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmud, 72 hours are not required.
    The entire foundation of your thesis is in error.