Crystal Cathedral Up for Sale

God has given them the things they seek just as He does to us.

 

Not even the son? I got the impressions that he much more Christ centered and scripture based.

 

Is that the reason why so many Independent Baptist Churches have faded away?

 

Rev 2
4 But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—


IOW, the church will cease to exist, any church.

 

There is always a remnant of God's people.So the church does not cease to exist. During that time local churches that focus on self will die. It seems that in America that is happening more and more.

 

That's what I meant. We were talking about the Crystal Cathedral (a local church) and why it no longer exits.

 

Interesting. Church of God churches are declining. There are a lot of good Pentecostals and Pentecostal churches, but having been in them for 38 years, many of them teach "what God can do for you" not "what can you do for God." This is VERY much evident on the religious channels on TV.

 

It is My Opinion...

...and the following may be somewhat shocking to some, but from where I stood and observed this mega church and its ministry, it was always for sale.

By that I mean they were in the business of selling "feel good religion." Be it their huge Christmas or Easter Spectaculars; or their weekly televised Hour of Power, this church was always in the business of entertaining its followers and making big bucks off the congregation and its television audience!

I also believe Schuller laid the ground work for preachers like Joel Osteen. Every service at the CC had to be a big production, with its weekly list of guest from television and movie stardom, to sports stars and legends, to well-known political leaders (proclaiming to be Christians), to recording artists (soloists and groups) and the ever growing list of guests who were at "top of their game" such as authors and motivational speakers. Schuller never ran out of weekly guests to amp up the popularity of the service and weekly television show.

I'm not going to say that the Gospel wasn't preached, nor am I saying that God wasn't lifted up in the services. However, everything had to be staged and scripted in such a way to fit a set time frame in order to get the most "bang for the buck" out of each service.

Years ago I attended a three-day workshop for church planters, and it was put on with the co-operation of Schuller's top people. I was disappointed in the "commercialization" of the Gospel message through the topics and presentations made during this workshop/conference! I was so disappointed I left early each day.

The church and its founding pastor definitely had "class," and they knew how to but on a slick, Hollywood type production. TBN probably learned some things from Schuller and his organizational skills and showmanship.

Still, I always wondered if they had the goods to evangelize a lost world and help believers to mature in their growth along the way. This is not meant to be a judgment, just an observation from someone who lived in the area and drove by the church many times a month.

Again, this is simply an observation of what I'd seen over the years, and how Schuller showmanship and polish influenced other pastors when it came to conducting church services. I say this because when serving as an associate pastor for a good-sized church in San Bernardino, CA the pastor was always concerned about time frames, where people stood, what they wore on stage (in order not to clash or melt in with the stage colors, etc. It was very frustrating as it took the "being you" out of the service, and it allowed for now errors, goofs, etc., and if they did occur, he would jump all over the associate of lay leader who didn't do their job to the "T." The service had to be perfect, and that just didn't manifest and allow for the moving of the Holy Spirit.

In other words, IMHO, that the movement of the Holy Ghost can't and shouldn't be scripted.

Yes, it is sad to see the CC go by the way of bankruptcy, but it may be a message from God to other mega churches that He'd prefer the genuine approach to sharing the Gospel in contrast to scripting and selling the Gospel.

 

That is a Great....

...Point.

BTW - welcome to the BB! :type:

 

I understand but your judgment may be wrong and it may be right. Many churches are dying today and not all are devoid of the Spirit. About 80% of the new church starts die within two years.

I saw a church disband because its pastor got seriously sick. He was unable to do anything for about one year. The church was about 100 in a town of 700 out in the middle of nowhere. (The nearest city over 1100 was about 40 miles. The town of 1100 only had one gas station and one small store). It was an alive church and the pastor was very good. For a long time the church tried to get a pastor but could not.

My first pastorate was a church that had lost its building and pastor. Was that church devoid of the Spirit? Absolutely not. God was purging the church of its trouble and in the process of bringing it to health. It is probably one of the greatest churches I know. They are a praying and discipling church. The problem was that several members were KJVO who were troublemakers. I prayed that God would get their heart or they would leave. One by one they moved at least 400 miles.

Who are we to say that God is not at work in the Cathedral to bring it to health. We will not know until everything is done. I am not on their staff and have no first hand knowledge of what God is doing.

 

Paul wrote, "Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice, yes, and I will rejoice.

My grandmother was not a Christian when she began watching the Hour of Power. We had many discussions about Christ and scripture. While I never agreed with several things Schuller said I see how God used him in my family. My sister started watching Schuller and later became a Christian. While none of them continued watching Schuller, God used the program.

 

I've had the opportunity to look over Beth Moore's "Believing God" study series. Target audience is for women who have accepted Christ. ie people who already believe. The study is filled with "what God can do for you".

What happens to these women when they realize God doesn't keep all the promises she makes on His behalf? I pray that most, if not all, are mature enough in their faith to see that she's a "cheerleader" conducting a "pep rally". To understand that the Holy Spirit, in their lives, will be there when they fumble and drop the ball. "Believing God" doesn't mean there'll be a touchdown on every play in our lives.

 

I don't think so. They may make a come back but it won't be in the crystal cathedral, which has been acquired by the Diocese of Orange. http://www.rcbo.org/component/conte...ese-of-orange-acquires-crystal-cathedral.html

 

I agree with you but we do not know what God has in mind until we see what happens. I have thought for over thirty years that his day is coming but I have also seen two of my family members used by that program. My sister and her husband have been used mightily of God to reach others. When they became believers they realized the shallowness of the program and began seeking something with more substance.

I do not think we can pass judgment until God does what He wants. It is not our doing but His. I have seen churches bought and become businesses.

Seems to me that Schuller's church is not a whole lot different in results than those who will pray and lack boldness to share the gospel with anyone. That reminds me of a time when I was a student at a professional school that was incredibly demanding. We were given rules we had to memorize word for word including the punctuation marks. The following day the instructor may call a name and ask the person to repeat the rules for what we were to memorize. We were graded on our response. Other times we were given a sheet of paper and asked to write out what we told to memorized for that day. If anyone got below 70% then they were on probation. If they did not raise their grade in the following week they were dismissed from the school. All of us had to be sponsored by a business in that organization of businesses. The final part of the program was the application of all the rules we learned. During the program one of the instructors asked about how we could tell how much business a business was doing. There were several answers and then he told us to look at the number of workers working in the back.

The RCC may acquire the buildings and property and God take it away and give it to someone else. One of the top campgrounds (Hume Lake Christian Camps) in America was originally a saw mill that went down twice.