CSB?

Well, Wayne Grudem and Vern Poythress in their book THE TNIV AND THE GENDER NEUTRAL CONTROVERSY had no idea that adelphoi could mean brothers and sisters. In addition, they didn't know that aner (pl) is a generic word meaning people.

I had made no mention of that passage in this thread. The CSB's rendering of that was mistaken. The NIV has "brothers" in the text.

 

First of all, aner is singular and andres is plural. What text are you thinking of where the word is generic? Secondly, I know what adelphoi means and it is best translated 'brethren,' but 'brothers and sisters' is usually OK if people are allowed to know that the words 'and sisters' are not in the text. There is BTW a Greek word for 'sister' which is adelphe. It appears 24 times in the N.T. It is interesting that when the Holy Spirit wants to mention brother and sister together, He frequently says adelphos kai adelphe (e.g. Matthew 12:50; 19:29; James 2:15). One should not assume automatically that adelphoi on its own means 'brothers and sisters' and this may be what Grudem and Polythress are getting at.

 

You do not think Jesus is in the entire Bible, from Genesis to revelation? Psalms are His book! The NT quoted them more than anything else concerning Christ!

 

The question is not can irt be rendered in taht case, but can it be rendered as such all of the times the Niv has it!

 

The bottom line is that the Holy Spirit saw Jesus in the Psalm, and that is enough!

 

There were NO Female Apostles, Pastors. Elders in the NT churches, despite what the Niv and the Nrsv attempts to do in some passages!

 

Its determined by the context and also wether its singular/plural/male/feminine ....

 

As I had quoted : when it is warranted by the context.

By the way, the CSB has 'brothers and sisters" 158 times --the NIV 132.

 

I'll speak for the NIV. As I have told you countless times : you have NEVER produced a single verse to support your wild and completely false charges above. You have been corrected countless times yet are swept up into an obsession of saying completely false things over and over. Why is it that you do that? What does Scripture say about being
corrected numerous times and yet not heeding words of advice?

What drives you on with your fabrications? It is certainly isn't the desire to tell the truth.

I have asked you so many times to produce verses that can in any way be construed as the NIV advocating female apostles, pastors and elders. But you cannot be concerned with telling the truth, you are content with throwing muck and mire.

Don't give your stupid links that have often contracted your insane claims --do it yourself. Show passages that bear out your claims or say you have been wrong to do so for 8 long years. Live up to the Name you profess.

 

Grudem admitted in May of 1997 he did not know that adelphoi meant brothers and sisters.

 

Do you have a source for that claim? I should like to read it because I find it very surprising (not that I am a great fan of his).

 

Well I could not preach it like that, because I was one who had lifted up my soul to an idol and sworn deceitfully and done a whole load of other stuff, but, Christ has done it on my behalf. He has lived the life of perfect righteousness that I could not live; we preach the imputed righteousness of Christ from this psalm, but once again

THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!!!!!!

The point is that the NIV by CHANGING THE WORD OF THE LIVING GOD has prevented me from seeing the psalm that way. If you want to see it another way, that is your privilege, but it is terribly wrong to change something in the Bible (in this case changing singular to plural) without it being absolutely imperative to make sense in English.

WE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE GOD'S WORD. That is the point.

He is in view throughout the Psalm. He doesn't suddenly pop into view half-way through. But again
THAT IS NOT THE POINT

Hebrews 5:7. '.....Who, in the days of His flesh, when He has offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him, and was heard because of His godly fear.'

But again; that is not the point. Who gives translators the right to play fast and loose with the word of God? It is something to worry about; it is a matter of principle. You translate what's there. And what's there is a singular.

As, when and if I have time, I think it would be good to look at the hermeneutical principles that are given to us in the New Testament to help us interpret the Old

 

That number count by itself does not mean the Csb is more gender inclusive overall, as again, they followed the Guidelines and the Niv did not!

 

The 2011 Revision of the NIV

 

IT'S NOT THE POINT!!!!!! If you want to discuss the theology of the verse, go to the Theology Forum. Here we are discussing unilaterally changing the word of God from singular to plural.