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Featured Culture War Report: SBC Retreating....

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Oct 23, 2013.

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  1. Draw a line in the sand and stand their ground!

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  2. Continue to retreat as the war can not be won!

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. Continue to march forward and fight for the Gospel message!

    7 vote(s)
    53.8%
  4. No opinion...

    2 vote(s)
    15.4%
  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    I beg to differ....

    Do these words sound like reconciliation?

    Luke12:49-59 (TLB), “I have come to bring fire to the earth, and, oh, that my task were completed! 50 There is a terrible baptism ahead of me, and how I am pent up until it is accomplished!

    51 “Do you think I have come to give peace to the earth? No! Rather, strife and division! 52 From now on families will be split apart, three in favor of me, and two against—or perhaps the other way around. 53 A father will decide one way about me; his son, the other; mother and daughter will disagree; and the decision of an honored mother-in-law[a] will be spurned by her daughter-in-law.”

    54 Then he turned to the crowd and said, “When you see clouds beginning to form in the west, you say, ‘Here comes a shower.’ And you are right.

    55 “When the south wind blows you say, ‘Today will be a scorcher.’ And it is. 56 Hypocrites! You interpret the sky well enough, but you refuse to notice the warnings all around you about the crisis ahead. 57 Why do you refuse to see for yourselves what is right?

    58 “If you meet your accuser on the way to court, try to settle the matter before it reaches the judge, lest he sentence you to jail; 59 for if that happens, you won’t be free again until the last penny is paid in full.”

    Then, he says, "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple." (Luke 14:26)

    If we are to follow HIm and pick up the cross, it will mean leaving family and friends behind should they disagree or not choose to believe in He who has called us to folllow Him!

    In Matthew 10:34, He says, “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! No, rather, a sword."

    Then in Luke 12:51 we read a parallel passage where the word sword is replaced by the word "Division." See: “Do you think I have come to give peace to the earth? No! Rather, strife and division!"

    Your word reconciliation is just another word for "appeasement or pacification!" It can also be construed as meaning Harmony, or worse yet, compromise!" These words or terms are more in line with the mission and objectives of the Emergent Church! Make everyone happy. Everyone goes to heaven in the end, or "Deus ex machina!" And that is not the Gospel Jesus taught when it comes to being on a Narrow Path traveled by few versus the road to destruction, traveled by the multitudes!

    So, I beg to differ...of course we know He did not advocate a physical violence to attain that division, He surely meant that spiritually speaking, we need to be separated from the world, like salt, we are a curative to sinful desires, a beacon on a hill, marching to a different tune or beat, one that leads to heaven not hell! Sacrifice must and will come when we follow Him, and reconciliation is not always possible, especially in a world that is ready to mock Him and those who follow Him. Those who are wanting to live like hell six and a half days a week, only to give God a pittance for the other half day, or even less, for an hour! :tear:
     
  2. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    So precisely where do you get the idea I advocate appeasement and pacification. I "percieve" that you have some axe to grind with any church that you would deem as "emergent" ( and I have not seen any real clear definition of such) I am going to "choose" to say no more at this time.
     
  3. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Note that is Jesus speaking of His own ministry. Where anywhere in the following verses does He say we are to "bring fire" to anything?

    Tell me where in those three verses it says we are to be divisive? It is not us, but our belief in the gospel, that is divisive. We ourselves are not to be divisive. That is a terrible interpretation of this passage.

    And yet again, where does He say that our judgment of what is right is to make us combative, aggressive, and divisive? Not once does He say that!

    That's reconciliation, not combativeness.

    That isn't at the end of this passage, it is two chapters later! It isn't even the same day! Not to mention, you misinterpret the meaning anyway, if you intend to convey the idea that we must actually "hate" those in our family who oppose the gospel. You think Christ preaches hate? Oh, man, what folly! The word is used in opposition to the preference we have for Christ over our family.

    No. Even if they agree with us, they are still to be preferenced only second to Him. That is what this passage teaches. It says nothing about "disagreement." It only opposes a preference for Him vs. a preference for them, and if them, then we are neglecting our disciplehood in Him.

    Again, "I" ... not "you", meaning us.

     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    dude
    [/QUOTE]

    Good Post Dude in that you correctly identify the fact that the word of God is a TWO EDGED SWORD.....

    A passage that speaks to the sharp contrast and division where we are to love our enemies even when the truth we proclaim causes division...if it is not accompanied by the "oil" of the Spirit -

    19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.

    20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

    21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

    22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

    23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

    24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

    25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

    26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

    28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

    29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

    30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

    31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

    32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

    33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

    34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

    35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

    36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


    37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

    38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.:wavey::wavey:
     
  5. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Good Post Dude in that you correctly identify the fact that the word of God is a TWO EDGED SWORD.....

    A passage that speaks to the sharp contrast and division where we are to love our enemies even when the truth we proclaim causes division...if it is not accompanied by the "oil" of the Spirit -

    19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.

    20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

    21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

    22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

    23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

    24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

    25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

    26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

    28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

    29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

    30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

    31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

    32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

    33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

    34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

    35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

    36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.


    37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

    38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.:wavey::wavey:[/QUOTE]

    This is exactly what I mean when I speak of "tension" in scripture and the living out of our faith.
     
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Well, I appreciate your passion. God knows I know what it is to have things boiling inside of you building up pressure like a pressure cooker and bursting the weak vessel that in futility tries to contain it.

    But I'd like you to consider that those of us advocating that the SBC step back a bit from its political involvement may not be liberals.

    I'd like you to consider that we may not be weakening the hands of those who fight the battle like it may seem to you that we are doing.

    I am conservative. I believe in small government, a strong military and that the Constitution is not a "living" document but rather static and unyielding.

    And I hate the immoral scourge on this land that is the growing acceptance of the abomination that is homosexuality. No one can love God and not hate evil.

    But here is what I, and I think others on here are saying. Not, "Let's retreat from the battle and let's compromise with the evil destroying us." No. Not that at all.

    But rather, "Let's change strategies from a losing one to one that can render victory and is actually biblical."

    Here's the better strategy. Stop antagonizing people by glorifying what we hate and start amazing people by glorifying what we love. We love Jesus Christ and our neighbors.

    Let's be known, not PRIMARILY for what we hate, but preeminently for what we love.

    If we would take the millions of dollars, perhaps BILLIONS, spent on political action by God's people every year and feed hungry people, and buy school clothes and supplies for poor families and fund after school tutoring programs at our churches and help deliver people from addiction and pay for phone calls for prisoners to talk to their families, etc... it would be a lot harder for sinners to paint us in such an evil light.

    Then as we, by the love of Christ which opens countless doors for us to preach the unadulterated Gospel, win tens of millions to Christ every year homosexuality becomes a smaller and smaller problem each passing year.

    We win. We WILL win- but it won't be by aligning ourselves with a political party or by spreading a political agenda, or by electing politicians who claim to have our best interests at heart. No, a thousand times no!

    It will be by doing exactly what Jesus TOLD us to do. His way works.
     
  7. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    Well....

    ....it was from your quote that I drew the idea of your pacificism, and I quote - "Ours is the "ministry of reconciliation" not condemnation."
     
  8. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    I'll try harder....

     
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