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Damnation?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by natters, Aug 9, 2004.

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  1. natters

    natters New Member

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    The KJV teaches that you can receive "damnation" for resisting appointed authorities (Rom 13:1-2), eating meat while doubting (Rom 14:23), eating and drinking the Lord's supper unworthily (1 Cor 11:29), or if you're a widow under 60 and remarry (1 Tim 5:9-12).

    Most other versions use "judgment" or similar in these passages instead of "damnation".

    Are any/all of these doctrinal errors in the KJV? Any KJV-perfectionism supporters care to comment? What say ye?
     
    #1 natters, Aug 9, 2004
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    The word "damnation" might have been appropriate in 1611.

    That was then....

    HankD
     
    #2 HankD, Aug 9, 2004
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Natters, we today associate being "damned" with condemnation to Hell. The Elizanethan meaning of the word is broader. To be damned roughly equates to us saying that we are being judged. The Greek context referrs to judgement. However, I don't think that the word difference is a matter of doctrinal error. It's a matter of language evolution.
     
    #3 Johnv, Aug 9, 2004
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    ...this is now.

    HankD
     
    #4 HankD, Aug 9, 2004
  5. natters

    natters New Member

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    I would agree with both comments above. But then I wonder: how would KJV-only people argue that using "judgment" instead in these verses (like other versions) would be an error, corrupting God's word? Wouldn't they have to argue that damnation is correct and judgment is incorrect?

    Michelle? RaptureReady? Askjo? I'm curious what you think about this.
     
    #5 natters, Aug 9, 2004
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    No problem with the word "damnation" in its 1611 sense.
     
    #6 NaasPreacher (C4K), Aug 9, 2004
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Everyone with a functioning brain realizes that the inspired Greek word might have 4-5 different English words that COULD be used legitimately. Look in a Strongs and see the various ways almost every Greek word IS translated in various NT passages.

    So damnation, which does NOTand DID NOT mean "consigned to an eternal hell".

    Strongs: krima, kree'-mah; from G2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against ["crime"]):--avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, go to law, judgment.
     
    #7 Dr. Bob, Aug 9, 2004
  8. natters

    natters New Member

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    Again, I agree. But would a KJV-only person be OK with changing "damnation" to "judgment" or "condemnation" in these verses? If not, why not?
     
    #8 natters, Aug 9, 2004
  9. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim New Member

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    They shouldn't because in there KJV 1611 1 Corinthians 11:29 when damnation is used there is an alternate rendering at the bottom of the page "Or, judgement" so there is their own version saying it could be translated judgement.
     
    #9 DeclareHim, Aug 9, 2004
  10. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    DH,

    You're correct, but KJVO's don't accept the margin note for lucifer which reads "or day starre".
     
    #10 Johnv, Aug 9, 2004
  11. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim New Member

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    Good point I guess the translators thoughts don't count.
     
    #11 DeclareHim, Aug 9, 2004
  12. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    That's OK, since most KJVO's don't think...except to follow Gail & Pete & any other yahoo who toots his horn loud enough to be heard over the din.

    Seriously, it is the choice to be 'wilfully ignorant' that characterizes most KJVOites. When someone shoves their fingers in their ears, shuts their eyes tight, and shouts, "LA-LA-LA-I-CANT-HEAR-YOU-LA-LA-LA!", then you know just what you are dealing with.

    My question is: Why? What are they afraid of? That they may find out that they are wrong? That they may come to realize that they have bought into a lie? That they may be bored to sleep?

    I just cannot understand anyone choosing to remain in ignorance. But, then, once they have heard what really is and ain't, you don't call it ignorance, do ya?

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
    #12 Trotter, Aug 9, 2004
  13. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    A whale is a fish.

    Lacy
     
    #13 Lacy Evans, Aug 9, 2004
  14. natters

    natters New Member

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    A lucifer is a morning star. ;)

    Brian
     
    #14 natters, Aug 9, 2004
  15. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo <img src ="/Granny.gif">

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    #15 GrannyGumbo, Aug 9, 2004
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    You don't live in 1611.
    You live in 2004. Your 1611 talk is not the
    talk of 2004.

    Consider FUNDAMENTALIST.
    From 1920-1980 it meant a member of a
    protestant movement that stressed the
    basics of the Bible in a literal way.
    1980-1990 it mean any member of any
    book Religion (usually Christian, Muslim,
    or Jewish) who stuck to the main
    fundamentals of their religion.
    1990-2004 it means BIGOT, especially one
    who interperts their religious book
    literally.
     
    #16 Ed Edwards, Aug 10, 2004
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    I figured it out. Here is my cut:

    ----------------------------
    The fundamentals of fundamentalism:

    1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
    2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
    3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
    4. the literal resurrrection of Christ from the dead
    5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

    The fundamentals of anti-fundamentalism
    (these are the noisy ones called "fundies"):

    1. Anti-Modern Version (KJBO = King James Bible Only)
    2. Anti-education
    3. Anti-success
    4. Anti-women pants on women
    5. Anti-Semetic

    Typical statements of the anti-fundamentalist called
    by the world "fundies":

    1. The KJB replaces the origial language manuscripts
    as being God's word
    2. Calling "seminary": "cemetery"
    3. Billy Grahmn sold himself to the Devil
    4. (this is generic for all cult-like rules of behavior;
    all majoring on minors)
    5. Jews killed Christ

    [​IMG]
     
    #17 Ed Edwards, Aug 10, 2004
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    [​IMG] Granny [​IMG]

    I'm still trying to find definite answers to WHEN the KJV revisions began REMOVING the translator's notes, thereby implying that there were no other choices of words than those in the text.
     
    #18 Dr. Bob, Aug 10, 2004
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    A conversation is a lifestyle.
    An ouch is a brooch.
    A morning star is either Jesus, or something He gives the believer.
     
    #19 robycop3, Aug 10, 2004
  20. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    And why not today? Damnation is still in existence today, judgement has not yet occurred.
     
    #20 RaptureReady, Aug 12, 2004
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