Damnation?

[HankD]

Those Greek and Hebrew texts were copies of the origionals and to which were also translated into other languages including our own. They are still the inspired words of God, regardless of what language they are in. God speaks to me in my own language, not a foreign one that I do not understand.

agreed!

Then do a comparison of the translators of the ERV of 1881 preface, and while your at it, check out Westcott and Hort and those before them involved of their morals and beliefs, and concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and you will see a very big difference.

Yes they didn't cut off anyone's ears for one thing.

HankD

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water

The Bishops did manage to get it right here michelle.
--------------------------------------------------


As they also got it right elsewhere, as has been shown to you.

Webster's New World Dictionary

baptize: [Gr.baptizein, to immerse] 1. to administer baptism to 2. to initiate 3. to christen

baptism: 1. the sacrament of admitting a person into a christian church by immersing the individual in water or by sprinkling water on the individual 2. an initiating experience

with: 8. as a result of /faint with hunger/ 9. by means of (I took these two definitions, as there were many uses of this word, and these two were those to which fit the context: /baptize with water/, but feel free to enlighten be with a better definition of this word in this context.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
Yes they didn't cut off anyone's ears for one thing.

--------------------------------------------------

No as far as I know they didn't. But they sure had a disdain for the deity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and his word of truth. This to me is a more serious matter concerning this issue, considering they were in large part responsible for the underlying texts used and methods used for the mv's of today, claiming to be the words of God.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by michelle:
--------------------------------------------------
"Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not." In a more recent translation, the last phrase is translated as "they do not toil". English no longer places not after the verb in a sentence.
--------------------------------------------------

And as many have stated, these type of changes in the modern versions are not necessarily the problem. The problem is with the alterations that affect the context of the passage and change the truth from the already established truth, that is the problem. Changing things that are not necessary to change. Word changes that are not necssary to change, or that have been known for generations even until this day, that have been changed to alter the message and/or cause confusion, or that change God's truth into a lie, or half truth. The omittion of long known and currently known, believed and taught verses or words. These are the problems, and show forth altering of the words of God under the guise that our language is currently changing. You have bought into their lies, hook, line and sinker.

Unfortunately it is not logical
to suppose a restatement of your major premise
will defeat an oponent's minor premise.
Instead you must defeat your oponent's
minor premises one-by-one. If you defeat
all your oponent's minor premises,
you show your major premise to be true.

Here you need to say and prove:
English sentence order never changes.

And of course, spelling can change:
\O/ Praise Iesus, Sonne of God \O/

 

[natters]

michelle said "check out Westcott and Hort and those before them involved of their morals and beliefs, and concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and you will see a very big difference." and "they sure had a disdain for the deity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and his word of truth."

This is completely untrue. Completely. Do not simply believe the false slander regurgitated time after time by those who don't know what they're talking about. Look into it for yourself and you will see that your statements are completely false.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by natters:
michelle said "check out Westcott and Hort and those before them involved of their morals and beliefs, and concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and you will see a very big difference." and "they sure had a disdain for the deity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and his word of truth."

This is completely untrue. Completely. Do not simply believe the false slander regurgitated time after time by those who don't know what they're talking about. Look into it for yourself and you will see that your statements are completely false.

Michelle's comment is true. Westcott and Hort were NOT saved. W/H are in Hell right now. Sad!

 

[russell55]

they sure had a disdain for the deity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

You mean like this?

We confess that He is 'the only son of God' and 'our Lord'. In both respects, though truly man Who lived with men, He occupies a position essentially distinct from that of any other. His Godhead is one with the Godhead of the Father, His sovereignty over men is absolute.

Or this?

We believe - I say - and confess that Jesus Christ is the only Son of God. The confession cannot be lightly made. If the simple thought of God ought to fill us with speechless awe, the further thought of God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, one God, is yet more overwhelming. On such a mystery, where human words and human thoughts must fail, our words should be few, and these spoken rather in devotion that in explanation or argument....It is enough for us to know that He Who lived our life, on Whom we place our trust, is the only Son of God, and therefore Himself in essence very God:

Or maybe this?

As Christians we believe in God: we believe also in Jesus Christ. It is, let us boldly avow it, an amazing faith. We cast the burden of our lives upon Him Who, very man, has borne it upon earth, upon Him Who has fulfilled by living,dying, rising again, every promise to Jew or Greek through which the Father encouraged the world to look for redemption and consummation: upon Him Whom we confess in the fulness of His Deity as the only Son of God , and in the absoluteness of His sovereignty as our Lord.

(Quotes from The Historic Faith by B. F. Wescott.)

 

[Michael52]

Originally posted by Askjo:
Michelle's comment is true. Westcott and Hort were NOT saved. W/H are in Hell right now. Sad!

And I could say, "Yeah, W/H were welcomed to hell by those other Anglican scholars who got there before them; the KJV translators!"

But I won't. I don't have any more authority to say who is or isn't in hell than you do, Askjo. Unless, you are up for a spot on the Judgement seat. But, I believe that position is already taken!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by natters:
michelle said "check out Westcott and Hort and those before them involved of their morals and beliefs, and concerning our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and you will see a very big difference." and "they sure had a disdain for the deity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and his word of truth."

This is completely untrue. Completely. Do not simply believe the false slander regurgitated time after time by those who don't know what they're talking about. Look into it for yourself and you will see that your statements are completely false.

Amen, Brother Natters -- Preach it!

Thank you for refreshing my bowels in
the Lord today! May God be liberal
today with blessing toward you,
your family, and your ministy. Amen.

\O/ Praise Iesus, Sonne of God \O/

 

[HankD]

Thank you for refreshing my bowels in
the Lord today!

Bro Ed, I can see that you have been to the Great Physician!

HankD

 

[natters]

Askjo said "Michelle's comment is true. Westcott and Hort were NOT saved. W/H are in Hell right now."

Michelle's comment is false. As are yours. If you would look into this for yourself, you would quickly learn that you have been lied to about these men.

 

[HankD]

Michele, you have requested/required an answer concerning the teaching ministry which the Lord has allowed me. I have decided to answer this personal inquiry.

you have said that you understand the scriptures, but you sometimes turn to the mv's to give those you are teaching a better understanding, because they do not understand the KJB. Why go to these versions,

I meet people where they are. The Lord did this as well, so I use His example. They use MV’s because my local Church invites all whatever version they use. I have explained my views to those with whom I review the Scriptures with. They are welcome to use whatever version they please. Sometimes I will have different people read a given passage from the different versions (usually NIV/NASB/NKJV). We haven’t had a problem yet. If there is a variant, I explain my view again and that I always choose the Traditional Text such as “pascha-Passover” instead of “easter”.

People like the assurance of the proliferation of translations as did the KJV translators to show the “sense” of the Scriptures. I accommodate them.

if you understand the problem, and you also understand the scriptures? Why not expound to them the truth from the scriptures themselves and let the Lord give them understanding?

I do, He does.

You see, many do not have a misunderstanding of the English language in the scriptures. Many do not understand the spiritual language, truth and meanings in the scriptures. Why lead these souls to polluted waters to which will make them think that they are understanding and receiving pure water? They will then rely only upon the polluted waters, and neglect and reject the pure water, because they have been led to believe that the pure water is that to which is polluted. I am curious to know why, and I am not trying to judge you, even though you are taking it this way and I am sorry if you did/are.

I ultimately go back to the Traditional Text, even the KJV does not follow it in every instance. The Traditional text is what John Burgon and others called “the River of Life” and I agree with him in this instance. I reject this nonsense about “polluted waters” vs “pure waters”. The KJV has it’s own bias towards the Anglo-Catholic doctrine. It matters not to me what you or any KJVO has to say concerning this matter which I have researched with prayer.

Since you require an answer, here is the bottom line answer:
I have to answer to and please my Lord michelle and not you or any other human being except my pastor as the Lord’s episcopos (overseer, NOT “bishop”). I try to make everything I do in my ministry a matter of prayer, thought and/or meditation and the ever-standing request for wisdom while listening for the still small voice of the Spirit. Yes, many drown out that voice with the voice of another, some telling them some very bizarre things.

HankD

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Michael52:
I don't have any more authority to say who is or isn't in hell than you do, Askjo. Unless, you are up for a spot on the Judgement seat. But, I believe that position is already taken!

Westcott did not believe that Heaven is a place. Hort did not believe that the Christ is God. Do you think they are with the Lord in Heaven?

 

[natters]

Askjo said "Westcott did not believe that Heaven is a place. Hort did not believe that the Christ is God."

Complete untruths. Distortion, one might even say.

Askjo said "Do you think they are with the Lord in Heaven?"

I have no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by natters:
Complete untruths. Distortion

YOU defend Westcott and Hort. However Westcott's books AND Hort's books said they did. Their books disagree with you. Their books refute you by saying, "complete untruths." You distorted their quotations in their books by saying, "complete untruths." Sorry, it is very obvious to show that you deceive yourself.

 

[natters]

Askjo said "However Westcott's books AND Hort's books said they did."

No they don't.

Askjo said "Their books disagree with you."

No they don't.

Askjo said "Their books refute you by saying, "complete untruths.""

No they don't.

Askjo said "You distorted their quotations in their books"

No I didn't.

Stop the slander. Stop lying.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by natters:
No I didn't.

Because you are in denial. YOU ignore this evidences because you are still in denial.

Stop the slander. Stop lying.

W/H's books did. Lying? Tell their books to STOP lies.

 

[natters]

Askjo said "YOU ignore this evidences because you are still in denial."

As of yet, no evidences have been presented. Only slander.

Askjo said "W/H's books did. Lying? Tell their books to STOP lies."

Which books? Do you even know of any?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Askjo:
Westcott did not believe that Heaven is a place. Hort did not believe that the Christ is God. Do you think they are with the Lord in Heaven?

You do
not have the expertise to meaningfully
say this. You have not cited an expert
who might be able to meaningfully say this.
Until you meet one of these criteria,
you are wasting somebodies cyber-space
and the time of the rest of us.
Come on, this is a DEBATE forum,
not a baseless speculation forum.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by natters:
Askjo said "YOU ignore this evidences because you are still in denial."

As of yet, no evidences have been presented. Only slander.

Askjo said "W/H's books did. Lying? Tell their books to STOP lies."

Which books? Do you even know of any?

Do you not believe me? W/H wrote their 5 books.