Dating or Courting?

Depends on how you use them... If you use dates to get to know a person, then it falls under dating...

Courting almost never follows dating... Courting almost always comes after years of friendship...To put courting in a nutshell: You meet someone somewhere, you become friends, you see the friendship escalate to a new height, you sit and discuss the next move....you decide that this may be the one you are supposed to marry, and then you enter into a courtship...No where in this process do you see dating take place.

~Teresa~

 

I'm not sure if you see this as good or bad.

Um, but it was just said a few posts ago that dating (not so-called "modern dating") was simply making a date (an appointment) to spend time together with another person. How can you be friends if you don't spend any time together?

Which would be the same thing as dating (not "modern dating" as defined earlier) for a while and then realizing that God may be leading the relationship to marriage.

According to the definition of dating I used above, dating would be a very large part of the process. Certainly we hope that "modern dating" would not be part of the process.

You seem to have an issue with the *word* "dating". As I asked previously, do you believe the work has been so misused that Christians should no longer use the word?

 

Well....Now that you put it that way, I think that if Christians are using the modern model of dating, then they shouldn't use that word simply because of the negative connotation that it's been given...

When it comes to dates, it's usually seen as an activity that is done so that one party can get to their desired place in a relationship physically wise...

The last modern date that I was on I didn't realize it....A co-worker of mine was supposed to bring me home but kept complaining that he was hungry, so I figured if he'd get some food he'd be quiet...We went to Denny's and the entire time that we were there he was trying to get further and further with me....That is why I don't lke dating, or using the word dating...I think Christian "dating" is just a liberal form of courting...That, of course, is just my own opinion!

~Teresa~

 

While I disagree with your opinion because I don't like abandoning words just because other people misuse them, I certainly understand why you believe this. Just remember that not everyone else has revised their vocabulary.

I think this is an overstatement of the case... even among non-believers. While I have gone out (not considerate a "real" date) with "Christian" women who have immediately thrown themselves at me (they didn't get anywhere but back to their car/front step), it is certainly not the norm. Frankly, it surprised me so much when one of them explicitly asked me to spend the night with her that I found it anything but a temptation.

Certainly there are many people who are just looking to "score", but I don't think it is as bad as you describe it.

Sounds like a real jerk... and dishonest to boot.

Yeah, sounds like a rotten experience... Of course the problem is really with the people we described, not the dating custom itself or the words we use to describe it.

It can be... but I think there's more to it than you give credit for.

I have to get back to work now. Later tonight I'll post something which gives more of my perspective on the issue. It might help you understand why I have taken the position I have. The subject of condemning Christian "dating" is not a new one with me. It first came up for me in 1986...

 

The subject of condemning Christian "dating" is not a new one with me. It first came up for me in 1986.

A friend of mine that I grew up with was a "pretty boy". He was very good looking and did some modeling on the side. Whenever we went places, girls would throw themselves at him -- I got used to the drill... When he would walk away from me, girls would rush to talk to me to ask about "his situation". At one point he was dating 7 girls at the same time (they did not know about each other at first... then it all came apart when he couldn't keep their names straight nor the keep the dates he made). He was sexually active because the girls he dating would do anything for him. I tried to reason with him about the way he treated girls but he wouldn't listen... he'd just tell me I was jealous of the attention he was getting.

Then the Spirit moved among the youth group and many of us college people at church and most people's lives changed. He got serious about the things of God and renounced his evil ways. Unfortunately, he decided that "dating" was wrong because he had trouble with it -- obviously if he had trouble with it, everyone else had exactly the same problem.

Dating was pronounced as evil and people who dated were "only after sex". (Since he had a fresh conversion story, his word seemed to carry more weight with most of my friends and associates.) He began advocating arranged marriages and courtship as being the "only Godly way" to find a mate. People who dated were condemned for their "rebellion against God" and their "lusts" based merely on the opinion of someone who had real problems with women.

In my opinion, his problem was that he did not respect women. He treated them as objects for his sexual satisfaction and little more. If he actually liked and respected women, he would not have used them the way he did.

In college, he met a young woman he wanted to get to know but he had already made such an issue of not dating that he had a hard time getting to know her. Eventually, they started spending hours together getting to know each other and going to do things together (nothing immoral I'm sure), but he always insisted that he wasn't dating... they were just friends. (Not really anything different than what he condemned in everyone else.) As soon as he graduated from college, they married and now have several children.

In my opinion, his problem was his own sinful nature -- not dating customs -- and he had to get that straight and actually build a friendship with a woman before he was ready for marriage. What I have described sounds very similar to courtship... and that's good.

But the problem comes in when you confuse sex with dating and then assume everyone else does the same thing...

That's why I think the whole "dating v. courtship" thing is a misplaced emphasis. The issue is not dating customs, but personal sin.

 

Yet- it is the dating customs that leads these people into making the decisions that they do. If everyone, theoretically of course, courted, there would be very little problem with disrespecting woman and sexually active "daters".

I believe dating "customs" are made by the people involved.

 

Now, I'm not sure if this was supposed to just be a general statement or if it was directed at someone...If it was directed at someone, I haven't seen anyone say that dating is hacing sex, although you will see more times than not that a dating relationship will escalate to a very physically intimate state...

Although, the last thing that I am going to say is this......You may not agree with me, and that's fine; whatever custom you use for finding a mate, use it, just remember that you are to stay pure (that's pure in thought, pure in word, pure in intention, and pure in action) and not put yourself in any situation that is going to cost you anything(whether it's crossing a line you're not supposed to, becoming overly emotionally attatched, or what not)...So, use waht you will, but make sure that you stay a virgin to the end...And you give yourself wholey to your spouse on your wedding night, both emotionally and physically.

If you think you can do that using dating, fine, but I've just found courting a safer road to be on, and a road with more accountability....I also hope that you can take up this motto: How pure, how long? instead of How far, how quick?.

In Christ's gracious love,
Teresa

[ November 08, 2002, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: baptistforever ]

 

Clarification, these people have temptation problems, not dating problems. Just because you go out on a date doesn't mean you are looking for sex.

Maybe some people's lusts have led them to create an association between the two doesn't mean the rest of the world has. I have been on more dates than I can count, many with unbelievers who would have liked to have a sexual relationship, but I never gave in.

Dating is not the problem, it is an issue of lust. If a change in words makes you more comfortable, fine, but don't judge the world by your past or bad experiences.

Please, don't focus your energies on the term people use, if going out to dinner to one person is a date while another is a courting meeting activity, don't assume they are to do something sinful. Place your energy into promoting sexual purity and on a proper relationship on God.

 

Ever feel like your talking to a brick wall?

 

Can't speak for you, but I know that sometimes I do.

 

FearNot,
When did I ever associate dating with sex? When did any of us associate dating with sex? If you can't show us, don't jump to conclusions...Read what's there, and take it at that...Don't add more, don't take away either...

Look at what we've said, no one has ever said that going on a date means going to have sex, or that when people date it is the soul purpose for sex....We've said that dating creates that type of atmosphere, so, prove it doesn't.

~Teresa~

 

S'kinda hard (if not impossible) to prove a negative like that. You've got the burden on this one. Sorry.

[ November 08, 2002, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: stubbornkelly ]

 

Right here: http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=001048#000005

and here: http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=001048#000008

and here: http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=001048;p=2#000016

and here: http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=001048;p=5#000062

If you are not saying that the differnce in dating and courting is sex, then what exactly IS the difference so that people will stop jumping to a wrong conclusion?

Or does it actually come down to a matter of semantics?

 

Let me ask two questions:
1. How many people have you heard of having children(or getting pregnant) out of wedlock that were dating?
2. How many people have you heard of having children(or getting pregnant) out of wedlock that were courting?

I'm not saying the difference is sex, I'm saying the difference is the situations that you allo yourself to be in is going to be different when you are dating vs when you are courting....

Courting is focused around Christ and family...You know the persons family way before engagement in a courting relationship because you're not just courting a person, but in a sense, their family as well....

When do you get to know the other person's family while you're dating? Usually not until the other person is thinking about popping the question....

We have all clearly stated the differences several times, but if you're not looking at what we say at face value, there's nothing else that we can say that is going to make you see the difference between the two.

I'm just going to say this again, since no one's going to change their mind once it's made up....

Do whatever you want to find your mate, but make sure that you're not placing yourself where you compromise your morals or have to make up excuses to back up your actions...You better make sure that you can remain pure, both physically and thoughts wise...

Now, most will agree that it is easier to do this in a courting relationship, but if you want to date, go ahead, I'm tired of speaking to people who have made up their minds and will do whatever it takes to make sure that their side can still appear to be acceptable.

[ November 08, 2002, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: baptistforever ]

 

Quite a few, but probably fewer than you'd think.

None.

However, lest we be deceived by my little statistics, I guess it's important to know that I've met dozens, even hundreds, of people who date, and two people who court (that'd be Teresa and Adam). So sure, more people who date have sex than those who court, primarily because there are more of them, and it's the more prevalent style. On top of that, courting seems to be confined to the religious realm, whereas Christians and non-Christians date, expanding the gap even further.

Really? I think that's an unfair characterization. "Meeting the parents" is still a pretty big deal, and most people I know introduce the person they're dating to their parents pretty soon after they become "boyfriend and girlfriend," which is generally quite a while before marriage enters into the picture.

Right, and none of the things you've mentioned about courting are inherently absent in dating. That's a conclusion you (and some other people) have made.

Second, some of the things named as differences aren't necessarily better. Not worse by any means, but not inherently better.

That's what we've been saying. We're not being obtuse and saying you haven't given differences. We're saying one of several things disputing the inherent differences and the extremely negative value judgement you have put upon dating. We're disputing your claims of the superiority of courting. That's all.

Adam mentioned talking to a brick wall. Those of us who are debating this issue have been pretty forthcoming with information-seeking questions. If we have objections to your claims, isn't it possible that those objections are sincere? What is it that makes it seem like disagreement must be some sort of smokescreen for justifying bad behavior? That seems to be a common accusation here, and it smacks of the very same thing we're being accused of - one-sidedness. Kettle? I've got a secret . . . .

[ November 08, 2002, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: stubbornkelly ]

 

"Adam mentioned talking to a brick wall. Those of us who are debating this issue have been pretty forthcoming with information-seeking questions. If we have objections to your claims, isn't it possible that those objections are sincere?"

I am not a kettle and I'm not calling the pot black. It's silver

And no, the objections no longer remain sincere when they are repeated over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over (getting the point yet?), and over, and over, and over again, with adequate explaination.

Now the question is: What exactly was I refering to when I made that statement about a brick wall?

[ November 08, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Bro. Adam ]

 

You've confused me. Did you mean "without adequate explanation?" Or are you referring to your objections being repeated with adequate explanation? Because either way, I don't get it.

It's been assumed that those of us objecting to the claims of superiority of courting are trying to justify some sort of bad behavior (I'm speaking of dating). I'm suggesting that that assumption is incorrect. I'm suggesting that the objections made (to the implied claims of superiority of courting and the inferiority - even badness - of dating) are sincere. And you're telling me no, the objections are not sincere . . . I'm not sure why not. I think I've explained myself rather well. As has FearNot. The explanations may not be to your liking, but they've certainly been adequate.

Instead, we're accused of being one-sided, mainly on the basis of our sincere disagreement with you (about the superiority of courting and the inferiority of dating). Our disagreement is called insincere and justification for wrong behavior. That's bad faith, if you ask me (which, admittedly, you did not ).

*shrug* No idea. Could have been anything. Given some statements made in this thread, it seems to have been directed at those who disagree with some of your claims. As if disagreement implies thick-headedness or stubbornness.

So, to what, exactly, were you referring?

 

So the difference IS sex!

So what are these "situations" if they are not sexual?

Well considering that in my situation I knew the woman for 25 years, our mothers worked together in "band boosters," her sister is a year younger and we all knew each other from our church youth groups, her daughter was a major focus (as well as challenge) in the relationship and part of our "dating" was attending Sunday School and church, your statement doesn't carry much of an argument here.

The fact that people are still asking for a specific clarification attest to the fact that it has not been stated very clearly.

THIS is why I have made these two posts in this thread. Sexual abstinence may be one facet of "purity" but it is not the whole picture. By this statement you are implying that somehow you are doing something "better" than other people.

Answer me a question:
Which is less pleasing to God: two people of consenting age kissing each other or someone commiting an act such as a lie that affects scores of people negatively?

Christ made it quite clear that the issue is deeper than physical acts.

Matthew 5:28
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So I will ask again, what are these "situations" if they are not sexual? Please, just answer the question and it will add a great deal of clarity to all of this.