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Deacons and the Church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Yes, they are, but they refer to the same person.

    We find this to be true in Acts 20.

    17 From Miletus he (Paul) sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church.

    So they came to Miletus and Paul spoke to them.

    28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he has purchased with his own blood.

    Here, Paul describes the elders as overseers (bishops) of the flock. That also makes them shepherds (pastors).

    Elder describes the man.

    Bishop, overseer, pastor, shepherd describe what he does.
     
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    that is what i was meaning to say!

    that the words translated from greek into English were all describing the 'same" role/position of authority within a local Church!
     
  3. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76 Well-Known Member
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    THIS! I am the youngest deacon at 34 years old. The next one is 55. Then we have two guys in their 70's and one in his 80's. We have prayed for God to send us someone, but it has not happened. If we deacons ARE leaders, it needs to be by example. I do NOT like the "we are the bosses of the pastor" mentality and I let them know this at my ordination. Since then, I've been licensed as a minister and I preach more and more.

    Question: should I stay on as a deacon? Steven preached (just before he was stoned to death).
     
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Depends ALL on how your church sets up leadership!

    In my baptist Church, the pastor is an Elder, and on the Elder Board...

    per bylaws, elders guide/govern the church in annual budgeting/spiritual teaching/leadership

    NO deacons per say, but have staff positions for Treasurer, Children Church administarator/Business manager etc!
    They handle the "day per day" in the Church!
     
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    As I've said before, deacons should not seek authority and leadership, but servanthood.

    That said, as a practical matter, power does flow to the deacons in most Baptist churches. That's because of the view that the church members have of their deacons. That view generally is that the deacons were chosen because of their wisdom and spirituality. Because of that, the members give weight to the opinions of the deacons, and assign them responsibilities in the church in several different matters.

    Because of that fact, deacons must be careful in carrying out those responsibilities. They must be careful not to assert more authority than they have.

    They must keep in mind that in the final analysis, they are servants, not bosses.
     
  6. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Even though they are appointed they are still in sin as they go against the word of God in regards to their intended position.
     
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    [
    [/QUOTE]


    How/why is that?
     
  8. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    How/why is that?[/QUOTE]

    Because man does not have the right to overrule the word of God.
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Because man does not have the right to overrule the word of God.[/QUOTE]

    What are they doing to "overrule" rule of God?
     
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    What are they doing to "overrule" rule of God?[/QUOTE]

    Originally Posted by Tom Butler [​IMG]
    As I've said before, deacons should not seek authority and leadership, but servanthood.

    That said, as a practical matter, power does flow to the deacons in most Baptist churches. That's because of the view that the church members have of their deacons. That view generally is that the deacons were chosen because of their wisdom and spirituality. Because of that, the members give weight to the opinions of the deacons, and assign them responsibilities in the church in several different matters.

    Because of that fact, deacons must be careful in carrying out those responsibilities. They must be careful not to assert more authority than they have.

    They must keep in mind that in the final analysis, they are servants, not bosses.
     
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Originally Posted by Tom Butler [​IMG]
    As I've said before, deacons should not seek authority and leadership, but servanthood.

    That said, as a practical matter, power does flow to the deacons in most Baptist churches. That's because of the view that the church members have of their deacons. That view generally is that the deacons were chosen because of their wisdom and spirituality. Because of that, the members give weight to the opinions of the deacons, and assign them responsibilities in the church in several different matters.

    Because of that fact, deacons must be careful in carrying out those responsibilities. They must be careful not to assert more authority than they have.

    They must keep in mind that in the final analysis, they are servants, not bosses.
    [/QUOTE]

    Doesn't the Bible teach that in matters of "spiritual/ruling" authority within the local church resides in the Elders, not Deacons?
     
  12. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Doesn't the Bible teach that in matters of "spiritual/ruling" authority within the local church resides in the Elders, not Deacons?[/QUOTE]

    Yes just with the elders. Biblical role of deacons is as follows;
    http://www.baptiststart.com/print/role_of_deacons.html
     
  13. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Ultimately it resides with the congregation as they are led by the Lord.

    From the link you just posted:

    Replacing an unbiblical church oligarchy of the "deacon board" with a similarly unbiblical oligarchy of "ruling elders" is not the answer.

    Much of the antipathy toward deacons (and the saints) stems from those trying to impose either a popish "senior pastor/mannagod" model or some presbyterial scheme.
     
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Think that the Bible supports NOT "either/or" but BOTH model on leadership within local church!

    God DOES raise up Elders to 'rule over" the body in a Christ like Spirit, but the Congregation also is to have their role in the decision making process!

    My baptist church has the pastors as Elders, an Elder board , but all major decisions such as Budgeting, projects, Building expeditures etc are voted on by Congregation, as the elders review options and presen them to the people....
     
  15. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    In an earlier post, I commented that in most churches power flows to the deacons because of the view that the members have.

    Let me explain further. The deacons serve the congregation. The congregation may look to the deacons to carry out certain responsibilities. And, as it does with any committee, it gives the appropriate authority to carry out those responsibilities.

    Let me give an example. Tuesday evening, my church's Finance Committee met to prepare the church budget for the coming year. The church gave the pastor the authority to appoint the committee. The committee was researched the information it needed about the previous year's expenditures, and determined how the church's ministry and operations would be reflected in the coming year's budget.

    Our pastor's priorities are also reflected in the new budget. (He's our elder, BTW).

    The church gives great weight to the Finance Committee's (and the pastor's, as well) recommendations. Rarely has the church changed or rejected the committee's spending proposals.

    Our Kitchen Committee prepares our fellowship meals (with a lot of pot luck to work with). But the committee chooses the meats. They don't take a congregation vote on the meat selection. The committee has both the responsibility and the authority to make that decision.

    The principal is always the same. To give someone responsibility without the appropriate authority is foolish.

    And whatever authority the pastor (elder), deacons and other committees have, it ultimately must come from the congregation.
     
  16. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    All that is very nice and it is basically how most Baptist churches rule, however it is not biblical. That is the issue, not that it happens. Baptist churches and especially those of the SBC are in decline and there is only one reason. That reason is that the Lord is making it happen. We need to return to the bible and stop deciding that we have a better way.
     
  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that is the work of the Lord thoguh!

    Think it falls back to us as Christians NOT living for God in His might, and in the principles of His word!
     
  18. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    I'm not sure of the argument you're making, unless it is for an elder-led church. Our church is elder-led. He's our pastor, and on occasion I call him Bishop.

    I don't think you're saying that the only functions deacons should have is to wait tables at our fellowship meals.

    Maybe it would be helpful if you would outline what you think the function of a deacon is.

    Several of our deacons teach. One directs our Sunday School. Several have preached from our pulpit. One is the choir director. We do hospital and outreach visitation. Two of our deacons spent time this summer on mission. We do not run the church. We are servants. The only authority we have is that which the church gives us, consistent with our responsibilities.

    Our deacons do serve in leadership roles, as you can see. That is a far cry from ruling.
     
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    per the Bible, appears that the Deacons were the 'staff' that were set up to handle the day to day operations of the local church, to have Elders do praying/teaching/'ruling" but that the deacons would be the ones to actually get those programs worked out and implemented into the church!
     
  20. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    An elder set apart to the ministry the Word = bishop/pastor.
    An elder made responsible for other church ministry = deacon.

    The latter enables the former to be dedicated wholly to his vocation:

    Acts 6:3-4
    Therefore, brethren, seek out from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business; but we will give ourselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

    I Tim 5:17
    Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.
     
    #40 Jerome, Sep 14, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2011
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