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Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by ChrisTheSaved, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Nothing wrong with having both :)
     
  2. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    Ok so the scum bag title was a bit much...please edit that admin if you could.

    I was just shocked to see schools that were clearly mills listed. Schools who's degrees are illegal to use in many states.
     
  3. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I understand your concern. I appreciate your input :)
     
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    I find myself in an awkward position. I not only will agree with Revmitchell, but will defend his statements.

    This is very true. The Seminary I attended 40+ years ago was unaccredited (it has since been accredited, both TRACS and ATS. ATS is the "gold standard" of Seminary accreditation) and it was explained very well in a paper written by the President.

    Accreditation required some things the school was not willing to do.

    1. The school held a conviction that it should be under the authority of the local church, and therefore the President of the Seminary was also the Pastor of the church. At that time the existing accreditation agencies (this was prior to TRACS) demanded the President be full time and available to travel in order to raise funds for the endowment. The school would not agree to that.

    2. The school wanted to reserve the right to have pastors teach pastorology and pastoral theology classes even if they lacked an accredited Th.M. (the minimal requirement at that time). (This proved to be prophetic in that in my last year they again were looking at accreditation and hired a man for the pastoral theology position who had a Ph.D. from an accredited University, but no pastoral experience at all. As a teacher he was a disaster. In three years he was gone.)

    3. Accreditation requires a significant investment of time and money in the development of a strategic plan, an assessment plan, and written policies and procedures regarding accreditation. Libraries were required to have several books written from the point of view of other religions, which, of course, violates the Seminaries doctrinal position, and diverts resources from the schools mission.

    4. Prior to TRACS all accreditation agencies were secular. Even ATS lacked Fundamentalist/Evangelical participation until fairly recently.

    Here I can wholeheartedly agree. Why is the student pursuing a degree? What does he intend to use that degree to accomplish? If he is seeking status with the secular world an unaccredited degree will be fairly worthless. But if he is seeking recognition in his own denomination then a non-accredited but denominationally approved school can provide that recognition.

    The seminary I attended was considered the "flagship" of the association I was part of. But it was unaccredited. But even while unaccredited it was still approved for student aid grants, Veterans Educational Assistance Program, and the G.I. Bill. It was also approved for educational visas issued by the US Secretary of State.

    So, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. People choose their institutions of higher education for a multitude of reasons. And, contrary to popular opinion, one size does not fit all. :)
     
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  5. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    Not one thing posted has anything to do with the legitimate problems I have with Tracs extending the first stages of accreditation to West Coast.

    Lamenting about not needing to seek accreditation, yet they are, as was the example of LBU (not brought up by me) which has sought and failed to make it through.

    Oh but they are spirit filled! Does that make them exempt from following standards?

    There are schools listed by instructors that were shuttered by law enforcement. Schools that sell diplomas!

    Perhaps someone needs to call me a snob for wanting a school that educates our youth to have the credentials to do so.
     
  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    The problem, as I noted above, is it has taken two almost three generations for the Fundamental Baptist education system to recover from its battles with Modernism and Neo-Evangelicalism. This is especially true for a school like West Coast. California is not exactly part of the Bible Belt. So, we have to pretty much grow our own. TCassidy gave a good picture of the lay of the land.
     
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    So what, exactly, do you have against TRACS doing their evaluation? If WCBC is not up to the US DoE standard they will be denied accreditation. Are you against that?

    Or is it that if they are found to meet the DoE criteria it will prove your bias against them is false?
     
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  8. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    I have zero bias against them. Yet you keep completely ignoring the fact they have staff using degrees that were issued shuttered by a school shut down by the fbi. But of course there is no such thing as a USDOE standards, as the accreditation agency sets there own.
     
  9. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    I guess I have never had to experience that. It really bothers me reading the faculty bio's. As a reference I looked at lots of other tracs school and found none that were like WCBC.
     
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    So, if the teachers are not up to the standard they will be denied accreditation. What is wrong with that? And their standards are set by the accrediting agency but they must be approved by the DoE or the agency is not placed on the approved list.
     
  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    What a dumb requirement!

    So very true !
     
  12. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I guess I should start another thread, but while I'm here with some learned men in the discussion, I'm looking into graduate studies and I really don't know what school to look into. I really don't know what program either. I have a burning desire to be well rounded in Bible all together. I know that's vague but Any suggestions?
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    As I posted earlier you have to make some decisions and establish some goals before you can consider what school to attend and what degree to pursue.

    Why are you pursuing a degree? What do you intend to use that degree to accomplish? And what degree will you pursue?
     
  14. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    What subject is your bachlors in?


    Liberty is a great school for online, block rates keep cost down and you will have a rock solid education above reproach.
     
    #34 ChrisTheSaved, Dec 28, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  15. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    Don't belive that for a second. Your school can %100 be under a church still. Multiple denomination's/ churches retain control of the schools the found.

    This is information that was put out many years ago by BJU in a little booklet.
     
  16. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I am pursuing a degree to get a better understanding of Scripture so I can

    A. Know my Lord better (personal)
    B. Preach/teach more effectively (pastoral)
    C. Make a better defense of the Gospel

    I'm already pastoring and I am not looking to go anywhere else.

    Not sure what degree would be fitting...either masters in theology or m.div.

    Pastoral ministry and leadership
     
  17. ChrisTheSaved

    ChrisTheSaved Active Member

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    You have multiple options to say the least.

    Why not start with a master's and then a MDiv? That way if you get your masters completed and decide to stop you still have an earned degree.

    If you earn your masters and then want to keep going a 36 hour transfer into a MDiv is no problem.

    Liberty university school of divinty has the best tuition out there with there accreditation . $2,500 max per semester for up to five courses. You can have 36 hours done in 3 semesters and only $7,500.

    I know it's not baptist but Nations U cost only a thousand a year for an Nationaly accredited degree. I earned my bachelors with them for almost no money. Be for warned, you will work hard. They require you keep a higher gpa than most seminaries.

    I have other low cost options and high cost options if I knew more as to what you wanted.
     
  18. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Thanks for the info

    I want to take classes in hermaneutics, Greek/Hebrew (but don't know if i'm ready for it), OT/NT, etc.
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    In that case I would recommend the first professional degree, the M.Div.

    Then as time and finances allow you might consider working toward the second professional degree, the D.Min.

    Going over to the research degree (Th.M. - Th.D.) would only be advisable if you plan to teach at the graduate or post graduate level.

    However, in the "kill two birds with one stone" category many seminaries (including Dallas Theological Seminary) are offering a combined M.Div./Th.M. program which qualifies as prerequisite for both the D.Min. and Th.D.
     
  20. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Thank you for your reply!

    I'm looking into the M.Div. programs right now at few schools...i'll look at DTS...any other suggestions?
     
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