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definition of being drunk

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Nchristian, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    (My apologies for the typos in the above post. It was posted on the web in Acrobat and I could not cut and paste.)
     
  2. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Just an fyi that there is a Select tool in acrobat that does let you cut and paste.

    As for your "medical proof", the article and the quote you have says that alcohol exerts an effect on receptor proteins on neurons. Looking deeper into the article, the proteins they mention include ion channels and neurotransmitter systems. The effect of alcohol on these proteins seem to inhibit their action.

    Calling this "brain damage" is a huge overstatement.

    1) Inhibition of the action of a protein is a temporary state.
    2) Our body has natural inhibition and stimulation systems for these channels/neurotransmitters.
    3) Many ordinary foods we eat (like caffeine and sugar) also inhibit or stimulate ion channels and neurotransmitter systems in our brain.
    4) Most pharmaceutical and OTC drugs, like painkillers (aspirin, tylenol), are much stronger than alcohol at these inhibitory effects.
     
  3. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    Gold;
    How much of the book did you read?
    I have spent several hours reading it and the conclusion I made is valid. Alcohol is detrimental to over all health. It destroys cells at every level. It is admitted that there is a need for further reasearch, yet all the studies all pointing to the Biblical view point. "He that is deceived by it (booze) is not wise" (Jim's paraphrase)

    In any case, it is fascinating how this world's doctors are coming to the conclusion once again that the Bible is right. 100 years ago and even a late as 20 years ago it was accepted that a glass of wine a day is good for you. However, the current research is debunking that notion based on new technologies at the cellular level. And it will be noted that the research seems to be motivated by the phenominal increase of alcoholism and alcohol related deaths and highway accidents. Nevertheless, the research still proves my point.

    Your points 2,3,4 are not related since we are talking about alcohol, not food or medicine.

    Read the whole book. If yer interested.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  4. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    It is facinating how two people can read the same thing and understand it completely differently.

    I'm curious, what is your background in human physiology and more specifically neuron function and the action of membrane bound proteins in neuron function? Do you even have the vocabulary necessary to understand this section of the article?

    These have never been in question.

    Do you even know what this article is saying is being debunked? It is saying that previously, the psychosomatic effects of alcohol were primarily thought to be due to general disruption of neuron function in the brain. New research "debunking" this theory suggests that the disruption is much more specific at ion channels and neurotransmitter receptors.

     
  5. mcgyver

    mcgyver New Member

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    Just a thought from the sidelines....

    Perhaps it is not the drink itself that is being addressed here, but the attitude behind the drink. That is to say, if we concur with the Apostle Paul that all things are lawful, but not all things are profitable.....that it is the intent of the heart behind drunkeness? Or to put it another way, when we are told not to be drunk on wine but rather be filled with the Holy Spirit; we are receiving instruction as to a "heart condition"....If that makes any sense. [​IMG]
     
  6. natters

    natters New Member

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    Same thing happens if I stay up too late. Is it holier to go to bed at 10:00 pm instead of 11:00 pm?
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Just a thought...what percentage of being a glutton is eating one cheeseburger? Is the "I'm getting full" the same as "I'm getting a little buzzed"?
     
  8. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Self correction.

    I meant to say psychoactive.
     
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    To answer the OP, I think it is when you lose control of vision, balance, speech, memory, etc. Some people can be 2 drinks, 6 drinks, others 8+. Same thing with food and gluttony. Some can eat 10 wings and be full, 20 wings, 30+
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    There are many other substances besides alcohol used as medicine that one could use to get stoned. The evil connotation attached to alcohol comes from the fact that it's been the MOST-ABUSED substance of all time.

    I think the key here is...MODERATION. Did you know our bodies require traces of almost every known element, including lead, mercury, thallium, and ARSENIC, for full operation? Enough of these elements are found in our food to satisfy the requirements, however. And did you know that DRINKING TOO MUCH WATER can be fatal? I don't mean, drinking so much at one session that the internal organs rip...I mean, drinking so much over a period of days that the body's electrolytes become so diluted that the heart ceases to function.(The heart operates by electircity, about a hundredth of a volt, and electrolytes such as potassium are essential to conduct this electricity throughout the heart.)

    Each substance has its limit as to how much a person can tolerate without untoward effects. For things such as cyanide, it's extremely small, while with water, it can be several gallons a day with proper diet & electrolyte maintenance.

    As a cop, I saw people with a BAC of .20 who seemed not the least bit drunk while others w/ a BAC of .05 couldn't stand up. It varies by the indicidual's body chemistry. But most states have arbitrarily set a limit of .08 BAC to judge one unlawful to operate a motor vehicle regardless of symptoms of intox or not. One effect it DOES have on all individuals at that level is to slightly slow down the reflexes. (And I might add that I NEVER lost a fight to an intoxicated person.)

    I will not drink any alcoholic beverage, the main reason being that it creates a visible stumbling block, I.E. "if Roby, a Christian, is drinking alcohol, it must be all right." However, I won't hesitate to use Ny-Quil, which for me is an effective cold/flu med, nor use my allergy meds as needed, which make me drowsy. God has allowed man to discover the medicinal uses of alcohol & other substances, and there's nothing wrong with their PROPER use.(I hate legalism anyway!)
     
  11. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    That would mean that we are never to sleep.
     
  12. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    I believe that I am conservatively "S-A-F-E" with my definition of drunkenness.
     
  13. David Michael Harris

    David Michael Harris Active Member

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    I also agree that Christians are to be sober at all times but its not always the case. When I became a Christian I was not interested in drinking alcohol even though I had a past with it, I was busy with my new life in Christ. I have been drunk since becoming a Christian and I regret it, its not fitting for a Christian.

    Discouragment can lead to backsliding.

    I live in France and its normal to have wine with most meals. Nothing wrong with that. Or a nice cold short frothy beer after a days hiking in the scorching heat or cider, but hey, why not lemonade?

    Drink can ruin you.

    Be filled with the Spirit we are told. Its important for us as Christians not to be a slave to anything.

    Paul said that leaders in the Church should not be addicted to too much wine, does that mean if we are not leaders we can? [​IMG]

    God gives all things richly to enjoy.

    What about smoking? I hate it, it stinks [​IMG]

    David
    <°)))><
     
  14. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    Alcohol stinks also! ;)

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  15. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert New Member

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    I thought I would requote this since it was the statement being challanged. I get a little suspecious when someone makes a statement and then asks me to do my own research to find it. If you believe this research then you should be able to show it to me, not give me a book and say find it. But anyway, I started in the 18 page document and made it about four pages when I realized I was wasting my time. Since you have read the book and claim to understand the research, please just quote the part that "even one ounce of alcohol impairs judgment". Upon recieving such a quote (complete with reference please) then you will be receiving an apology from me for my ealier comment.
     
  16. David Michael Harris

    David Michael Harris Active Member

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    I agree, I think it does more harm than good.
    Look what happened to Noah.

    David
     
  17. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I thought I would requote this since it was the statement being challanged. I get a little suspecious when someone makes a statement and then asks me to do my own research to find it. If you believe this research then you should be able to show it to me, not give me a book and say find it. But anyway, I started in the 18 page document and made it about four pages when I realized I was wasting my time. Since you have read the book and claim to understand the research, please just quote the part that "even one ounce of alcohol impairs judgment". Upon recieving such a quote (complete with reference please) then you will be receiving an apology from me for my ealier comment. </font>[/QUOTE]I can tell you this is true from personal experience, but I suppose that the testimony of one who has been through the mess wouldn't count for much. An ounce of alcohol is about what you find in 2 glasses of wine or two beers.
     
  18. fatbacker

    fatbacker New Member

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    Not that this post has any real relavence to the question but if you think of what alcohol is made of it ought to tell you that your probably better off not drinking it. Yeast, Barley, Hopps and wine is made of grapes. You have to actually let them rot in order to get it to become and alcoholic drink. Yes we can call it fermenting but I prefer rotting. And then we have to filter out the bad stuff so we do not get poisened. Ever been to a brewery? I have not been personally but from the many people I know that have says it reeks. So again I make my statement if you have to let something rot to get you drunk then you probably should not be drinking it. Plus if God says your better off not drinking then why would you? Is God a legalist? Is He preventing you from enjoying your life by making this rule? hmmmmm...I think God has my well being in mind. Thats not just my opinion either.
     
  19. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller Active Member
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    Not all rotting is bad. Aged Beef is pretty good stuff. :D
     
  20. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon Well-Known Member

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    Other food products of "rotting" fermentation include breads, pickled vegetables, cheeses, yogurts, tofu, humus, kimchi, soya sauce and miso.

    In a search, I found out that fermentation is also involved in chocolate, vinegar, coffee and tea.

    Delicious Organics : Fermented Foods

    [ April 18, 2005, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Gold Dragon ]
     
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