Degrees of punishment in Hell/in Heaven?

I am not saying the christian life is made up 'only' of choices but you can not deny our lives as believers are defined by our choices.

I take some 'potential' issue with your statement that those choices made are held 100% in the sovereign hand of God. This could be 'my' misunderstanding here but if I understand you correctly you are to use the Reformed view of 'soveriegn', and if so then it seems you are implying those unrighteous and sinful things done are due to God's direct involvment in bringing those believers to choose to do them. IF this is the case then yes, I take issue with such a statement. If not, then skip

Secondly, salvation is apart of our christian walk but our christian walk is more than just that. Just because we are saved does not mean we now will walk without sin and be holy. There is choice there and being saved does not negate it. This is typically part of the Reformed view brother so I'm not so sure I understand you contention against it. The reformed position states that when one is regenerate, this does not automatically mean they good and holy in all things but that they must willingly submit and be obedient. God does not actively bring His poeple into sin, as your use of 100% soveriegn over their choices, implies.

Maybe it isn't you who misunderstood me, but me who misunderstood you :laugh:

So are you saying God determines to make some of His people more godly and God-fearing than others? That He makes some to be more like His Son than others? That is not a Reformed teaching that I have heard of.

Acatully brother, what you just described 'is' God's fault. They were lazier because God didn't want them to be as holy, or godly as another therefore God didn't give then what they needed to make them as the other person. Their choices were conditioned according to God's plan for them 'to be' more unlike Christ than another.

See, here you loose me again. God has given to every believer every spiritual blessing and gifted us accordingly for the ministries He desires us to fufill. Yes when we fall short is our responsibility, but it is such because God was moving us toward another direction, righteousness and we chose differently, for whatever the personal reason was. When we sin it is not because God leaves us totally alone in that area of our life.

Now here we agree with the addition of 'by faith' :thumbs:

Yes but you must choose to walk by faith in this or not.
You must choose to walk in the flesh as a believer or the Spirit.

First, I do not understand your usage of 'the grace of God'.
Are you saying that only when you do right things the grace of God is there and when you don't it is not there and that is why you do it??


Secondly, I'm not sure what you keep meaning when you say 'by faith', because you use it so differently each time.

Faith as a verb simply put is - the action that proceeds from what you believe is truth.

Faith as a noun simply put is - all that is believed regarding a certain view that establishes your actions/life.

No it had nothing to do with testing God.
God is at all times in our life, in every situation in our life (as believers) moving us toward righteousness but we are told to walk by faith. We are responsible for the life we live before God and that is why we are held accountable.

Brother, It might be me but I'm not sure where you are coming from in these positions of yours because they are not typically espoused by most of the Reformed. In fact it 'seems' to go much further. Now, like I said it could be just me not understanding you so please clarify cause I not 'accusing' of anything.

So you have God controlling all your decisions, including the ones in which you choose to stand in sin/rebellion. See you lost me here again.

Also brother, in the Reformed position it is only when we become regenerate that we actaully and only now have 'free will' to obey or sin of our own choosing.

 

.........................:laugh:

 

Allen. Please don't try to speak for me and my toy sword. I have said nothing about condemnation. I simply state that the only righteousness we have is that imputed by Jesus Christ. You state in your post#13 the following:

I have already quoted from Isaiah regarding self righteousness. Read what the Apostle Paul states about righteousness.

Philippians 3:5-9
4. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5. Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6. Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

As for rewards simply consider what Scripture teaches about the Saints:

Romans 8:17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

1 John 3:2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

That is good enough for me!

 

See, I told you I just needed you to clarify:smilewinkgrin:

Hmmm...
I don't want to throw off your thread here brother, and it has been quite engaging, thank you. :thumbs:
But for an aside or different thread even:
If God is totally sovereign then no credit can go to any man for evil/sinful choices. The whole point of absolute or total sovereignty is God and God alone determines what will happen both in positive and negitive respects. If God gives mere humans the option or right to do anything (even sin) then God must give up His sovereignty and share it with man.


HOWEVER.. With respect to your thread. I was looking over something else today and ran across another passage from Jesus about greater and lesser punishments in hell.
Mat 23:13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation [judgment].

Here is John Gill on the passage with respect to 'condemnation':