Degrees of separation

IMO, separated is separated, and that would be the same. Degrees of torment, now that is a different topic.

 

I don't follow that. That is implying that some in Hell would have at least some degree of contact or awareness of God's presence. I think they are all equally separated, and that is 100% complete separation. But the torment that they are subjected to (while separated) will vary.

 

Perhaps it's degrees of suffering over the separation from God.
For it to be degrees of separation, it would have to mean there will be those who are more separated and those less separate. How can there be less separation for anyone in hell, God would have to be there for the person to be less separated.
Did I make that make sence? I've got it right in my head, not sure I translated it right.

 

Makes sense to me Donna.

 

I would have to (and so I do) agree with both your's and Steven's postings.

The death is seperation from God, hell is the place of judgment for those who are seperated and those judgments will vary by degrees.

 

An interesting analogy.
But I must ask: Does scripture state or allude to there being different degrees of seperation as it does for torments in hell?
What I mean is:
Seperation is always equated with death. There aren't varying degrees of death, you either are or you are not.

Hell on the other hand is a place is a holding place awaiting final judgment (Great White Throne) and therefore the probablilty that there are diverse torments for different people is not plausable but confirmed via scripture.

However, I do like your illistration regarding Hell. We see also in the scripture of demons being chained 'in the darkness' and even 'under the darkness'. Talk about deep. No wonder it is refered to as the bottonless pit.

 

I'm wondering where you come by the idea that hell is separation from God as if that's the definition of what hell is or all that is experienced there.

Sure, we're told those in hell are "away from the presence of the Lord", but we're also told in several places that they are experiencing God's wrath. I'd think that means that God is constantly acting in retributive justice in hell. If that's the case, then it's easy to see that there might be different retributive justice expressed by God there.

My own opinion is that "the presence of the Lord" phrase in 2 Thessalonians means God's blessing or his fellowship or something like that, not that God is not present in any way in hell.

[Sorry. I was posting while you were answering, and you've sort of answered already.]

 

I didn't say anything about physical death I'm refering to the spiritual death that man is already in but without judgment yet. It would seem that in your view we are in hell now if that were the case.

And agian, are there differing degrees of being dead spiritually?

Another question brother:
I think you are misunderstanding what seperation in hell is about. (at least that is what it seems).

If you are eternally seperated from God what other degree of seperation is there beyond that that is meaningful??
That encompasses, to never have hope, life, light, peace, joy, et al..
To be removed from any chance of hope or grace has no degrees. It is the absolute distance from God.

 

Anyway Web, I thought you analogy was interesting.

I think you are place some undo emphasis here but nothing of real consequence.

I'm out on this one (maybe :laugh: ) Enjoy your day and don't be 'seperate' from God but cleave to him. God bless you and your family richly in His grace and bounty.

 

Well said Allan, Amen.
In my mind there couldn't be anything worse than separation from God. Most take blessing for granted. As if they are natural. Everything even your next breath is a blessing. If you take everything away you have darkness. You have silence other than your own thoughts of regret. Being completely alone no one to share your misery with. No end of it for an eternity. That's got to be Hell. It would be far worse than fire because then at least you'd have the light from the flame. Oh you still burn with the I should haves. There are no degrees of loneliness You can't get anymore alone than you are when you're alone
MB

 

God may have seperations and punishments that are beyond our comprehension.
Whatever it is, hell is going to be severe for those going there.
I'm thankful for Jesus.

 

Me Too!!!!
MB

 

God blesses even the unGodly

We Know it is outer darkness and complete separation from God there is weaping and nashing of teeth. Living men are not completely separated from God because God blesses the unjust with the same rain He bless the just with. Hell is separation from God with out hope. With out any more chances. With out love and comfort.
MB

MB

 

Hi all,
I do feel there are degrees of seperation.
Those that are physically alive, but not in the right relationship with God are seperated from him. They are occupied with the things of this world and do not think of themselves as being seperated. They are missing out on the wonderful blessings of being in the proper relationship with God.

Those that die naturally, are now aware of truth, and with nothing to distract them, I believe they are able to see what they have missed out on and what is to come.

Then comes the LoF. Yet another degree of seperation.

I may not have worded this very accurate, so please try and understand what I am trying to say. I do not neccessarily believe that there are degrees of torment in hell or in the LoF, but hell and the LoF are different degrees within themselves.

Just my thoughts...

 

I think the idea that hell is separation from God and only separation from God does not give the whole Biblical view on the matter. Yes, hell is separation from God's goodness and grace, but not from His wrath. The person in hell is separated from all of the goodness and grace of God, but the wrath of God still abides on him. So to answer the question about degrees (and yes, I believe there will be degrees of punishment in hell), it does not lie in the degree of separation, rather it lies in the degree of wrath that the person will experience in hell.