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Democracy in Iraq

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by JGrubbs, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Spiritual peace comes through spirtual liberation and freedom from sin. Political peace comes through political liberation and freedom from tyranny.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    We were never meant to be a Democracy! You Neo-cons keep equating the invasion of Iraq with the "war on terror", praising Bush for what he is doing in Iraq, but ignoring the fact that he has done nothing to the number one country that funds and trains terrorist, his long time friends of the family, Saudi Arabia.

    Spreading "selective" Democracy only to the countries in the Middle East that will help you be in position to launch further invasions in the Middle East is not exactly loving freedom, it's world domination, or Bush's Pax Americana!!
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    We were never meant to be a Democracy!</font>[/QUOTE]Wrong! Our Constitution institutes the foundations of democracy: Free Speech, Free Press, Free Vote, and the right to emigrate. Although, I will admit the original form of the Consittution which you CPers hold as holy did oppress blacks and reduced them to less than human staus.

    You Neo-cons keep equating the invasion of Iraq with the "war on terror", praising Bush for what he is doing in Iraq, but ignoring the fact that he has done nothing to the number one country that funds and trains terrorist, his long time friends of the family, Saudi Arabia.

    Spreading "selective" Democracy only to the countries in the Middle East that will help you be in position to launch further invasions in the Middle East is not exactly loving freedom, it's world domination, or Bush's Pax Americana!!
    [/QUOTE]

    The war in Iraq is part of the war on terror and we are winning. The Saudi Royal family, although not perfect, is working with us to arrest the terrorists and stop the violence. Your problem is not with my "selective" democracy. Your problem is that you just hate the freedom which democracy allows, even in your own country. Or is it that you would rather nobody else have any freedom. Do you not think Muslims are worthy of the freedoms that you take for granted. Well, whether you like it or not, there are at least 8 million Iraqis who disagree with you.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/

    This is an example of the spread of freedom you despise so much. It is too bad you don't respect and support the Iraqi people's victory over tyranny and terror. But, it would not be the first time the America First anti-war isolationists have been on the wrong side of history.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    We were never meant to be a Democracy! You Neo-cons keep equating the invasion of Iraq with the "war on terror", praising Bush for what he is doing in Iraq, but ignoring the fact that he has done nothing to the number one country that funds and trains terrorist, his long time friends of the family, Saudi Arabia.

    Spreading "selective" Democracy only to the countries in the Middle East that will help you be in position to launch further invasions in the Middle East is not exactly loving freedom, it's world domination, or Bush's Pax Americana!!
    </font>[/QUOTE]Next Stop Iran. Hope the neocons have the good sense to stock up on sunblock. Iran could give us a real case of Russian sunburn! I think they plan to do just that should we try to "liberate" them.
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Yes. The sky is falling for all those who hate freedom and democracy and I am glad they are revealing themselves for who they truly are. You hate freedom. You hate democracy. And I am glad your pathetic party will NEVER be elected in this Democracy we call the United States of America.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    I don't hate and despise their freedom, but I do know that it's just a matter of time before the people in the new "free" Iraq are going to be persecuted, just like the freedom loving citizens of Saudi Arabia are. It is impossible for freedom to co-exist with the evil of Islam. Iraq is a new Islamic state and it won't be long after our troops are gone that the evils of Islam will haunt the people of Iraq. True Freedom is only possible with Jesus Christ and the only countries that will ever be free are the ones that acknowledge Jesus Christ as the foundation of freedom.

    You praise Bush and put him on a pedestal, all the while ignoring his connections to the Illuminati & Bilderberg and the New World Order. I don't believe Bush to be the Anti-Christ, but I see now that when the Anti-Christ comes into power, he could do it through the GOP and the "chruch" in America would be more than happy to support and follow him.
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    You are wrong.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    You mean like America?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  10. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    I believe America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and based on the foundation of Jesus Christ, but the more Americans thumb their nose at God, the more He will remove his protection from our once great nation, and will turn them over to their sinfull desires. That goes for any nation that rejects Jesus Christ, wether it be America, Israel, Iraq, etc., if a nation rejects Jesus Christ, they are destin for destruction.
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I am sure that the foundation of Jesus Christ included the endorsement of slavery? Gimme a break. :rolleyes:

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    You can't look at the 18th century through 21st century eyes and understand it. You have to look at history through the eyes of those who lived during that time in history.

    I could use your logic to say that the Bible is bad because it "condoned" slavery :rolleyes: :

    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

    Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

    The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
     
  13. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    Here's yet another new impressive term!

    Patrick
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    What are you saying? Are you trying to say that a Constitutional Republic that honored Jesus Christ still got it wrong and became a tyrannical government? Wouldn't that negate your original argument that only God fearing, Christ honoring governments could be free? interesting. Or perhaps you were appealing to moral relativism? Or, are you trying to make a Biblical defense for the tyrannical practice of slavery? Exactly, which way are you going here?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    You are saying that the US Constitution and the founding of our nation was not based on Christian principles and Jesus Christ because slavery existed, I was simply stating that I could say the Bible is not based on Christian principles and Jesus Christ because slavery existed in the Bible. That is how your logic works, you seem to look at history through the mindset of today, to understand the Bible you have to understand the Biblical times, to understand the founding of our Christian nation yo have to understand the 17th Century times.
     
  16. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    JGrubbs, I understand much of what you are saying and I agree wholeheartedly. You, however, are wasting your time trying to get Joseph to agree.

    As a true neocon he ridiculed your explanation about the difference between a Constitutional Republic and a Democracy and then proudly proclaimed a Democracy as superior and even scoffed at the idea of returning to what the founding fathers established originally.

    I fear that, in the long run, he and other neocons like him may prove to be more dangerous that the terrorists.
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Perhaps you would like to return to the tyranny of slavery, but I will pass and take what we have today and push for even more democracy and freedom.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Only for people who think freedom is dangerous and tyranny is good.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  19. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    Only for people who think freedom is dangerous and tyranny is good.

    Joseph Botwinick
    </font>[/QUOTE]If you were against tyranny you would take another good look at your president.
     
  20. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."--James Madison
     
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