Details: Israel, Abortion, and Homosexual Agenda Converge with Ivan

I would like to state for the record that yes, I do believe in God's providence and His protection.

What I don't believe is that if a believer does something wrong, they lose that protection. If all those verse are true that you quoted, then why should we fear "losing" this "umbrella" of protection? Does God take it away when we are bad? Aren't we always bad in one way or the other? What does it take to lose the umbrella?

The Gothard concept is that when you commit a boo-boo, you might find yourself stepping on a lot of chewing gum because God will get you. Yes, we sow what we reap but I don't think believers "lose" God's love or protection. We suffer the consequences of our actions, consequences of a fallen world, and consequences of natural disasters.

Also, I see no evidence that the United States was or is under any umbrella of protection.

peace in Christ,
Marcia

 

"I won't bother posting anything thoughtful or spiritually provoking again on this forum hoping to get a good discussion going in a sea of spiritual pirrhana - obviously it's easier for some to attack the messenger than think about the possible message."

Lady Eagle, I appreciate the spirit behind your post -- I really do. I don't think we've attacked you; we've disagreed with your basic point. And I think we discussed why.

 

LE,

Do you think that every natural disaster is God's judgment on humanity? Do you believe that every time a tragedy occurs that this is the judgment of God? Or is it possible that things just happen sometime? Can you point to a time when there was no sin in our country?

If people who claim to know the Bible can't see any correlation between our collective deeds as a nation and God's blessing and/or judgment, then it is quite apparent my Biblical world view is different than yours.[/QUOTE]

Certainly disasters could be the judgment of God for sin. Then again, there are other reasons that bad things happen to people. Sometimes God is testing their faith (I think Job is a pretty good example of this). Sometimes God uses their problems to bring glory to himself (I think the blind man is a good example of this. People asked what sin he committed. Jesus said none). Sometimes, good people simply get caught in the middle of horrible acts of violence by insane people like Adolph Hitler. But the idea that God only blesses the righteous with peace and prosperity is heresy and is not Biblical. You are correct about one thing though. My Biblical worldview is different from yours as I don't base it on the heretical teachings of TBN's false prophets, but on the Bible.

Maybe God is giving this Nation a wake up call![/QUOTE]

Maybe. Or, maybe he is testing our faith. Or maybe, he is using this to bring people closer to him. I don't know and neither do you.

That was the point of the OP. I won't bother posting anything thoughtful or spiritually provoking again on this forum[/QUOTE]



hoping to get a good discussion going in a sea of spiritual pirrhana - obviously it's easier for some to attack the messenger than think about the possible message. [/QUOTE]

When you actually post something that is thoughtful or spiritual in any way, your ideas will not be exposed as heretical and you won't have to play the role of the helpless victim of martyrdom as you normally do.

Joseph Botwinick

 

It is always nice to see that Sheeagle9/11 has abadoned the conspiracy theory pages on the internet.

 

This is similar to an earlier post, and I will give a similar responce: God is soveriegn and may very well choose to do (or allow) some things if He wishes to. I simply cannot say. Somewhere I heard on Christian radio that someone chronicled a lot of this stuff, but I can't find the source now.

 

Hey! There could be a connection, you know! I am not being sarcastic here. Lady Eagle could very well be presenting something divinely legitimate here! Do I "KNOW" for certain there is a connection between the events and weather?...no of course not. I do not pretend to know the mind of God. I'm just saying don't dismiss the pattern too quickly!

 

LadyEagle,
I had no idea that you hold the faith that you do as expressed here in this thread. I have just now come across it and encourage you NOT to withhold your messages that stir discussions in these areas.

They attack the messenger out of fear that you mgiht be right and they might be wrong. You'd think that as one Baptist to another Baptist that there would be brotherly love and carefully (lovingly) calm instruction rather than finger-pointing rejections. (And yes, some finger pointing resembles that of an angry road rager).

I just heard this day from a preacher/teacher on the air waves that he believes that the only reason this country has been spared a quicker judgment is because of our support of Israel.

Yet, LadyEagle, I don't believe that any of the hurricanes were created by nor God as a judgment against the US. Granted, there was severe damage received in Florida and elsewhere but that has been true in the past of other hurricanes and tornados and other storms throughout the US if you happen to live in storm prone areas.

Following Hurricane Frances, Governor Jeb Bush commented on live TV coverage (FoxNews, I think) that "God doesn't follow the path of the computers" in reference to the hurricanes direction that it followed after forecasters used computers to chart its path. This statement really burned my up, as my God doesn't create of direct a path of destruction and in fact, with prayer a storms path can be re-directed away from Christian believers who are the righteous.

As I recall it is Satan who is the Prince of the Air and it was Jesus who calmed the storm. If hurricanes and tornados and other storms are not strong and destructive movements of AIR then what are they??? We Christians have the same faith and power in our prayers to move mountains much less calm storms or cause them to track in a different direction.

 

So, do you believe David lied when he wrote in the Psalms that God makes/controls the storms and makes the lightning? Or perhaps, you believe Jesus lied when He said God causes it to rain on the just and the unjust. I don't believe this satan controls the weather stuff. God is in complete control of His world and nothing gets by Him. Even though we cannot know for certain why some things happen (such as hurricanes and other natural disasters that reek much havoc), we know for sure that God will work things out so He gets all the glory in the end.

 

So you believe that God the Father created the storm that God the Son calmed. hmmmmmm...... interesting. I guess that Jesus then contradicted the Father??? No, I think not and I cannot even think that you do either.

I suppose that we could agree that the natural world operates independent of God or Satan, but that faith, prayer, and trust in God can change the outcome of such a natural occurance.

 

What was the purpose of the storm?

No, I do not agree that the world operates independant of God. He is soveriegn over all and that includes the world and everything in it.

 

I just had a thought. Just as God let the man be born blind so that He woud get glory when Jesus healed him, God could have created the storm so that He would get glory when Jesus calmed it.

 

I look at it this way: God creates everything, and all things belong to Him and are done by Him.

So if Satan causes a storm, it is only because God is allowing him to create it. Satan may be the Prince of the Air, but only because of whatever leeway God gives to him.

And if God causes a storm, then that is His perogative. As I always say, this is His universe, we are just living in it.


mozier