Did alcohol cause Noah to promote the first act of homosexuality?

Wouldn't it be a little far-fetched to have a cloak handed down and used for more than 1600 years at a minimum (assuming the genealogy in 5 is direct father to son relationships)?

 

No.

1. Not if God made it in the first place
2. Not considering that for forty years of wandering in the desert, the Israelites' shoes and clothes did not need replacing...

The idea, however it happened, however, of Ham trying to usurp authority from his father for his own family line makes sense of Noah cursing Canaan rather than Ham himself...

 

God could have preserved such a coat, but that seems much farther from the text than the idea of homosexuality in some way. .

The curse on the son perhaps stems more legitimately from the sins of the fathers being visited on the children. Out of all of the explanations (and I will study this more next week since it is the next passage in our Sunday series through Genesis ... this week is the flood) ... but out of all the explanations, the authority one ranks right down there with incest with his mother. I am not sure there is any actual textual warrant for it.

I am inclined, as of now, to some form of sexual misconduct (whether actual or fantasy), or some sort of disrespectful attitude toward Noah, mocking him in his state of drunkenness.

 

I don't hold with the coat theory myself, so decided to check every scriptural reference to "uncover nakedness." Here is what I found:

Leviticus 18:6
None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 18:7
The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:8
The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Leviticus 18:9
The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

Leviticus 18:10
The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

Leviticus 18:11
The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:12
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

Leviticus 18:13
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

Leviticus 18:14
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

Leviticus 18:15
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Leviticus 18:16
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

Leviticus 18:17
Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

Leviticus 18:18
Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.

Leviticus 18:19
Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Leviticus 20:11
And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:17
And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

Leviticus 20:18
And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

Leviticus 20:19
And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

Leviticus 20:20
And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

Leviticus 20:21
And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.

Isaiah 20:4
So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

Isaiah 47:3
Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.


And here is every reference to "cover nakedness":

Exodus 28:42
And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:

Job 24:7
They cause the naked to lodge without clothing, that they have no covering in the cold.

Job 26:6
Hell is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering.

Isaiah 58:7
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Ezekiel 16:8
Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.

Ezekiel 18:7
And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;

Ezekiel 18:16
Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,

Hosea 2:9
Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof, and my wine in the season thereof, and will recover my wool and my flax given to cover her nakedness.

 

We know the Scriptures are there. It's the interpretation that we have a difference of opinion about...

 

The phrasing is not the same, but it is close enough to warrant a look. The active/passive/reflexive I think hardly matters. Doing the uncovering vs. uncovering yourself is not the key, I don't think.

The context however, could be similar. None of those Law passages tell us what the context is, nor what the acts or thoughts involved are.

 

Make a lot of difference to me. If I uncover myself or if my wife uncovers me. Yep, makes a difference.

 

Unless either of you have a headache...:laugh:

 

I borrowed this from tinytim.

 

Just make sure you bring it back... I am preaching this Sunday.

And the sermon is how Christians need to guard their testimonies!

 

Sitting on the front row!!!

Good Luck and I will send it right back. :laugh:

 

:tonofbricks: raying: :BangHead: raying:

 

Worthy topic Brother Tim. One that most of us need to pay heed to. mmmm probably would have done Noah a bit of good too.

 

Not in the text, however, either in Leviticus or Genesis. Do you really think the Law applied only if someone else undressed you rather than you undressing yourself to participate in the sinful deed? Of course not.

In Genesis, Noah is not said to be at fault. So the fact that he uncovered himself does not really seem to be the issue.

 

IF there was a homosexual act done, it was done BY Ham TO his father, and NOT willingly by Noah. That would explain what it means in the King James where it says about Noah realizing what Ham had "done unto him". Why would simply seeing one's father nude be a sin? Many children see their father nude (I did). What's the big deal? Ham had to have DONE something to deserve being cursed. It has nothing to do with Noah willingly having a homosexual relationship with his son. Of course, it could have been no more than Ham mocking and making fun of his father in his drunken state. Still, why would that elicit such a curse?

 

Good post, John

 

Seems God wasn't too fond of someone seeing your nakeness.


Exd 20:26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.