DID AMERICA'S GAY SINS CAUSE 9-11? YES!

Vaspers...ahhhh ok, yeah to be honest i too have seen that "head in the sand" idea in effect and do understand where your coming from. What always angered me was to hear people praying for God to touch their lives but all you heard was how horrible things were and "*sigh*, it's just our daily burdens we have to contend with", I couldn't help but think, if you have to contend with it then why ask God to remove it? (sorry my little soap box)

I also can appreciate the church you were apart of which didn't give a flip about teens, been there felt that. That being said, I applaud your willingness and caring to reach out to the youth despite any age difference. As a bit of encouragement, my grandparents (also pastors of the Nazarine church)were loved by the teens, and since their days of ministry consistantly had them moving from state to state pastoring many churches, the youth would literally seek them out and make special trips for youth events to spend the night camping out in my grandparents front yard. They knew my grandparents loved each of them and it didn't matter how old they were they were considered to be fun to be with.

It sounds as though you already have gained their respect, so perhaps asking them what issues they would like to talk about, how those issues effect them vs. how God sees things.

 

Vespers,

IT seems to me that you have no idea what it means to be accused of a crime and convicted before there is any proof presented. Why am I so bent out of shape? Because as you say, this fella looks up to you and here you are on this board holding him up as the poster child for all that is wrong in your mind with today's youth. All the while smiling at this kid and saying I'm your friend and will help you. What a sick twisted person you are. Do you have any idea what this kid faces if these allegation are found to be true, I doubt it. You are holed up in your ivory tower preaching to the masses from on high and using them as proof of why you must remain secluded. You will probably never face the humiliation of jail or prison, and I hope that you do not. But this kid is facing this threat, and how do you respond? By the way you talk it is with a bunch of factless platitudes as to why he is the way he is. I don't know this kid, but I do know how upside down his life has the possibility of becoming. I hear the cursing of sins from you, but where is the bestowing of grace that this kid and the remainder of the world so desperately needs?

 

Do you know who is to really blame for America's problems, 9-11, etc...? It is not dead men/women (the lost), but it is the living men/women (saved). The dead are already judged. Only the living can change the course of America's future, if you will.

2Chron 7:13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
2Chron 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2Chron 7:15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.
2Chron 7:16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
2Chron 7:17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments;
2Chron 7:18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
2Chron 7:19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
2Chron 7:20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.
2Chron 7:21 And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house?
2Chron 7:22 And it shall be answered, Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.

You see, it is the ones called by His name, Christians, who are to blame for any judgement brought on America. As long as Christians condone sin in their personal life then America (or an other country for that matter) will continue to see judgement.

Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

Christians, return to Christ, and He will return to us. Simple enough!

 

What is "New Evangelicalism?"

 

Rather, we as Christians return to Christ by meeting his conditions and blessings

 

I would say believers only (including me)

Amen!

 

I agree with your whole post. Amen!

 

Exactly! But why do the IFB's and the like always cast the first stone, knowing they are NOT without sin. Jesus was/is the only one without sin, YET, not even He cast any stone, nor did He condemn. Why is that? Any IFB care to answer that without taking any scripture out of context?

John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

AND

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

And

John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.


If Jesus judges/judges no man, then why do the IFB's (not exclusively, many Christians do this) do it?

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Your quote is what I have been advocating for years to my fellow Christians. I accept blame for my part, because I have not always heeded the Holy Spirit and did my own thing many times during my walk with Christ. Shame on me! However, I John 1:9 and II Chron 7:14 are the two scriptures I use most to get back in God's step.

 

If Christian churches would again administer church discipline of its' members as directed in the New Testament, many Christians would not sin so wantonly. Most Christians would again fear God and commit to His will and walk the talk...that is, "If only..."

 

This is long but worth it.

As it turns out Ronald Regan is the Blame for 911.

Did anyone else read this book yet? The author was interviewed just a few days ago on TV. Here is what I recall.

It was revealed in this current book just out on the life of Ronald Regan that under his administration Ronald Regan was place on a mission from God to bring down the Soviet Union. This call to mission came to Ron right after he realized he was spared from Hinkley's assassination attempt. Ron was a very spiritual person and went to the Soviet Union and basically "preached" to their nation. He did this by bring up Bible Stories at every press interview in each of his stops in their Union.

Ron said that he was shown that because the Soviet Union was atheist, God wanted him to bring it down. He of course succeeded. This is where the book stops.

Now let's connect some dots...
As I recall history during that period...
Part of this holy mission Regan set into motion was to help Osama Bin Laden train, supply, and fight the Evil Godless Soviet Union. It was Regan’s CIA directives to help destroy the Soviet Union that gave the power to Al-Quada that it enjoys today.

The SU never recovered from their defeat by the Afhgans and other countries realized they too no longer had to put up with the Soviets. It all came crashing down from that point on.

In some strange twist of fate, while Regan tried to do good by changing the world, he created the events that would lead us to 911. I know that he could not have known that a God believing group like the Afghans (be it Allah) were worse than the atheists, none the less; I think we can blame trying to convert the soviet union via Ron Regan’s Plan as more of a reason than all the other sins in the US.

And I voted for Regan too.

 

Most Christians have never lived the life of a fellow Christian in a third world country where you can and in some cases will be killed for your belief in Jesus Christ. American Christians are a very spoiled bunch for the most part.

I admire the missionaries of any denomination who go out and share the Gospel to these other depressed nations.

 

WEll, I can only vouch for the teens in my church - but their biggest issues are NOT stupid "evil" games and Harry Potter books. Its more like ramaining pure in an unpure world, unsaved parents and friends, and finding a date for prom. We have had lots of kids in come thru our church (hubby is pastor, I am youth director)and every one has heard the truth. I resent you saying pastors dont preach this and that, when you dont even know!!! My husband DOES preach on those things you mentioned, but not topically like you would like. When they are in the passage he is preaching, he doesnt ignore them. We have had kids in the past who "played Christian" as every church does. But our teens now know more about the Bible than I did at their age. They are memorizing, they are learning biblical history, and they are exposed to lots of challenging issues and ideas (i.e. use of amenuenses, apocalyptic literature (yes, we ARE Baptist), and eschatology). We are taking them as deep as they want to go. I am proud of them for their depth.

And as for homosexuality being the reason for our nation's tragedy - SIN is the reason for it. Ya gotta go back to basic doctrine.

 

To blame any of America's problems strictly on gays, is to coward out of accepting responsibility for our sin as well.

Youth problems go far beyond the concept of little things like Harry Potter stuff or video games. Honestly, I personally would be pleased if Harry Potter was the biggest issue among youth. Kids go through alot these days and they need all the support and love they can get.

 

In God's eyes, one sin is just as bad as another. They are all sins. We are all sinners. To blame the unsaved for something bad that happened is totally wrong in my book. As christians, have you NEVER sinned? I know I have. If we have never sinned why do we need to continually ask for God's forgiveness? Did the gays cause 9-11? No! To lay the blame on ANYONE is pointless. I know God commanded us not to judge. So, what gives us the right to point fingers. After all, if we were out there doing whatever we could to save the lost and educate the "baby" christians, we wouldn't have near the problems we have now. About the gay marches and such, why arn't we as christians having peaceful marches? Isn't our message more important? We have to reach them on the spiritual level before they can be changed. So if there is finger pointing to do, point it at ourseves as christians failing to do what God wanted us to.

§hawna