did Enoch die ?

What does the Bible say?? You can speculate all you want as to the question of whether or not Enoch went to Heaven, but the truth of the matter or the answer to the OP question is that Enoch didn't die.

I don't know how much plainer it can possibly be. If you don't believe the Bible that says ENOCH WAS TRANSLATED THAT HE SHOULD NOT SEE DEATH, and if you continue to claim that "should not see death" means he died, you've got a fundamental problem that probably won't be solved here on this board.

 

Blackbird,

Have you personally witnessed anybody being raptured physically lately? I havent...

so are you trying to sell me something that has no proof of existence or of ever existing?

although I was in an interesting situation where God resurrected my soul in the spirit of Jesus Christ...(first resurrection)
and I didnt have to leave my body for that experience..
now Ive Got this brand new resurrected spirit dwelling inside my body.
God calls this spirit "the kingdom of God" and he also calls it "new jerusalem" and he also calls it "a throne".

but I dont physically "feel" none of those things inside me. I guess there non molecular and invisible. but I know spiritually that they exist within me.

I know that death is not been completely conquered also.

it still stings a little.

because Im still renewing my mind and my physical body still exists in this decaying form.
I have to wait until the changes occur completely to acknowledge death being completly destroyed in me personally. But God has promised that these events will occur.

its just a matter of time.

Blackbird..the transfiguration was a vision..a revelation.. actually its the second of three revelations. (baptism, transfiguration, and ascent)

Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

(these things Jesus testified to were to be spiritually discerned at a later time. the vision would be understood of its message through the spirit at pentecost to them. after jesus death and resurrection.)

Peter, Paul, and John received visions. they appeared real yet they were all illusions within the mind of those men. they thought that the visions were real.

and the statement about "death where is thy sting"...

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

this statement occurs when all men have overcome death in their spirit, souls and bodies. witnessing to the lordship of Jesus Christ over the power of death towards ALL MEN.

This will happen in OUR future.

We believe this by faith in a personal and individual vision received in this age. yet without the understanding. the vision is dead. The understanding comes to us in knowing Jesus As Lord of Our Lives today. If He treats us without partiality towards any other man.
then the inevitable truth exists that he will do it towards all other men. as He died for all men.

Enoch, Elijah and moses were treated as all other men are treated equally. they died physically because they were cursed as all men born of adam are.
there is no reason to treat them any different.

Me2

 

OK---all men die---you still haven't explained to us---at the moment of the Resurrection---the Apostle Paul says that there will be some still alive at that precise moment---what of them?? Since there is no "translation"---no change---what about the change that will take place for the dead in the grave---when mortality shall put on immortality---isn't that a "translation"?? A change from earthy to heavenly??

And then suppose I came to your church and started preaching Enoch the way I and others have presented him----having not seen death---translated into Heaven---you gonna get up and walk out??? Not come back?? Have a talk with the Deacons??

 

Eh?? God didn't mention Enoch's death. He said Enoch didn't die. What Bible are you using???

 

Indeed - this decaying flesh does not go to heaven asis - but rather we are changed -- in fact as you point out "we shall ALL be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet" 1Cor 15.

In Christ,

Bob

 

1Co 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

all men die physically and are resurrected by receiveing a new body.
all men die spiritually and are resurrected into a new spirit.

1 cor 15 speaks of the resurrection within a new spirit body.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

the last trumpet is the seventh angel in revelations. the third woe.

the overcomers resurrection of those who have physically died and are resurrected with their new spirit body.

which is at the beginning of the next age.
some have been physically dead awaiting this resurrection for thousands of years.

this is no reference to not physically dying but is towards the acknowledgment of being changed into a new body.

this is not the same resurrection as

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

this is a figurative statement treferring to spiritual resurrection while the Resurrected spirit is within the physical flesh body.
those who have preceeded others await their recognition that Jesus Is Lord of their Life. they await the meeting in the air (holiness).

Overcomers are taught to detect those who are truly saved and declare that Jesus Is The Lord over death in their Lives.

this is an admonition not to loose the opportunity to fellowship with other overcomers.

these statements were told of Paul 2000 years ago. can you imagine the thesselonians still waiting on some kinda "rapture" and missing all opportunities to fellowship with true overcomers in Christ?

 

Still Waiting

 

Friend,

The writer of Hebrews said that Enoch did not see death! That is why I do not include him with the others. That plus the fact that Paul mentions the others as having died without receiving the promise. What promise did God give to Enoch? Now, what promise did God give to Abraham, Isaac, et al?

Because the writer didn't need to! He already revealed that Enoch didn't die before he began to speak about the others.

 

He indeed does! Sound biblical exegesis demands it!

 

Wopik,

nice page youve linked.
explains everything.

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html

if Enoch would have preceeded Christ into heaven.

It makes one doubt Christ when he calls himself
"firstborn from the dead". (col 1:15; col1:18)

Me2

 

The only thing it reveals is the defunct reasoning of some guy who takes excessive liberty with God's Word.

 

there are many papers found on the web. some quite detail in explanation.

all seem to be using the same scriptures previously mentioned within this thread.

simply type in your favorite search engine

enoch Elijah moses

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

that sure does bar these other guys, dont it.

Me2