1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Did God translate the 1611 edition of the KJV?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Logos1560, May 2, 2022.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 2
  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,213
    Likes Received:
    405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    On page seven in a recently closed thread about the Geneva Bible, a poster asserted: "In 1611 God did not give his scriptures, he translated them into English"

    Is this non-scriptural claim that God translated His Scriptures into English in 1611 sound and supported by the Scriptures?

    Is this claim as extreme as Peter Ruckman's advanced revelation claim for the KJV?

    Does this claim in effect suggest that God was not involved in the translating of the Scriptures into English many years before 1611?

    If God translated His Scriptures into English in 1611, would God need to borrow and revise earlier English Bible translations instead of making His own perfect translation?

    If God translated His Scriptures into English in 1611, would God choose to borrow many renderings from the 1582 Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament translated from the Latin Vulgate?

    If God translated His Scriptures into English in 1611, would there be any errors in the 1611 edition of the KJV?
     
    #1 Logos1560, May 2, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,573
    Likes Received:
    627
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Good questions. We need Gail Riplinger to lead us to truth in this matter. Lol
     
    #2 Marooncat79, May 2, 2022
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,213
    Likes Received:
    405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If God directly translated the 1611 edition of the KJV as some KJV-only advocates may try to suggest and if the 1611 KJV was equally inspired with the preserved Scriptures in the original languages, it would not be possible for the 1560 Geneva Bible and other pre-1611 English Bibles to be better and more accurate than the 1611 edition in at least some places.

    The fact of over 2,000 changes, revisions, or corrections being made to the 1611 edition of the KJV would conflict with the non-scriptural claim that God translated the KJV.

    If God directly translated the 1611 edition of the KJV, there would have been no need for added words to be put in a different type (in italics in later KJV editions). The purpose and use of italics in KJV editions contradicts the claim that God translated the 1611 KJV.
     
    #3 Logos1560, May 3, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. 5 point Gillinist

    5 point Gillinist Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2022
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    130
    Faith:
    Baptist
    James White drove her into hiding, once in a while she comes out of her hole.
     
    #4 5 point Gillinist, May 3, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,039
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did God translate the 1611 edition of the KJV? Did God translate the Greek Septuagint?
     
    #5 37818, May 3, 2022
  6. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He did not translate the 1611 edition or the 3rd/2nd BC edition. However he helped both Bibles come into being.
     
    #6 Conan, May 5, 2022
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,039
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where do we get that in the written word?
     
    #7 37818, May 5, 2022
  8. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    315
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Because there are errors in the KJV and The Septuagint. God did not translate those errors. Had he done all the translating, there would have been no errors.

    Yet it is clear that the KJV Is a high quality translation, so he must have aided those translators. And the simple fact that New Testament writers quote the Septuagint favorably shows Gods approval of the Version. Or in this case, Versions.
     
    #8 Conan, May 6, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,285
    Likes Received:
    507
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I assume God helped all the translations of His inspired words into receptor languages, just as He helped me these past 50 years in preparing sermons.

    No "inspiration", but often "inspiring" me by His Spirit within.

    As soon as a man-made (obviously with errors) translation is declared "inspired by God" and perfect, it is a lie. One of the greatest cultic (word used by proper definition) leaders was Peter Ruckman, who declared not only was an English translation perfect, but that if there were discrepancies with the Greek, that English translation "corrected" the Greek.
     
    #9 Dr. Bob, May 6, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 2
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Supreme irony on this is that the translators themselves were not KJVO, nor was their "patron saint" of textual criticism, dean Burgeon!
     
    #10 JesusFan, May 6, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    The Holy Spirit was as involved with the Kjv, as he was in the Geneva, Nkjv, Nas etc!
     
    #11 JesusFan, May 6, 2022
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    indeed, why any need for any textual sources, would not the Holy Spirit had just given to them the full and error free bible complete by inspiration period?
     
    #12 JesusFan, May 6, 2022
  13. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,213
    Likes Received:
    405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If God Himself translated the Scriptures into English in 1611, why did He give many acceptable alternative renderings in its marginal notes?

    If God Himself translated the Scriptures into English in 1611, why did God also translate the Apocrypha books into English? Does this poster's claim suggest that the Apocrypha books should be considered Scripture since God is in effect claimed to have translated them?

    If God Himself is directly and completely responsible for the 1611 KJV, does that suggest that the preface to the 1611 KJV should also be considered Scripture or at least to have God's authority?

    Since the 1611 KJV preface is entitled "The Translators to the Readers," did the KJV translators improperly claim credit for what God did?
     
    #13 Logos1560, May 31, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Kjvo despise textual criticisms, yet did not the 1611 translators themselves use that in order to determine to them what best readings would be? And did they not as you state also have in their margins have additional acceptable renderings from the original languages into the English, so where were those perfect and only renderings?
     
    #14 JesusFan, May 31, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 2
  15. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,213
    Likes Received:
    405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If God directly translated His Scriptures into English in 1611 as a KJV-only poster suggested, why does Psalm 69:22 have nine words in a different type or italics to indicate that they were added by its human translators?

    Concerning Psalm 69:22, Bible translator William Barrick wrote: “In this brief text consisting of six Hebrew words, the [KJV] translators expanded them into a very different form utilizing twenty-two words (nine of which are additions not found in the Hebrew forms either lexically or grammatically). This particular example of expansion is paraphrastic” (Understanding Bible Translation, pp. 61-62).
     
    #15 Logos1560, Jul 7, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,356
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In looking over the new Greek textbook I reviewed in the other thread (The Translator's Grammar of the Textus Receptus, by Steve Combs), I noticed something that I call the dilemma of the KJVO Greek teacher. How do you grade the homework if the student doesn't translate exactly like the KJV? Or what if the textbook--by a KJVO author--doesn't translate just like the KJV??? Here are some examples (complete with that little dash at the beginning of each).

    KJV John 2:10--"And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse."
    Textbook: "-and he says to him, every man the good wine sets forth, and when men have drank well, then the worse" (sic).

    KJV John 2:12--"and they continued there not many days."
    Textbook--"-and there he continued not many days" (sic)

    KJV Mark 9:43--"it is better for thee to enter into life maimed"
    Textbook--"-good (better) to you is maimed into life to enter (it is better for thee to enter into life maimed)" (sic)

    KJV John 4:41--"And many more believed because of his own word."
    Textbook--"-and many more believed through his own word"
    JoJ note: "own" is not in the Greek.

    KJV 1 Tim. 5:1--"intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren"
    Textbook--"-but intreat (sic--modern spelling is "entreat") as a father younger men as brothers"
     
    #16 John of Japan, Jul 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Was not the latin Vulgate a legit translation, and did not the 1611 translators themselves see versions such as the Geneva and Bishop and even Rheims as valid translations also?
     
    #17 JesusFan, Jul 7, 2022
  18. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Or Peter Ruckman!
     
    #18 JesusFan, Jul 7, 2022
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    Where and why then did the 1769 edition make so many changes to the 1611 Kjv, and why did the 1611 team use even Catholic Rheims a lot?
     
    #19 JesusFan, Jul 7, 2022
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,913
    Likes Received:
    240
    No to both
     
    #20 JesusFan, Jul 7, 2022
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2
Loading...