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Featured Did Jesus die for the sin of unbelief?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Barry Johnson, Jul 31, 2020.

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  1. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Where?
    I do not believe this is a biblical statement. He died for the sins of the world.
    MB
     
    #21 MB, Aug 6, 2020
  2. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    #22 Marooncat79, Aug 6, 2020
  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    One of the most direct statement Jesus made concerning His ministry and death (purpose)

    In Mark 10:45 Jesus says that He “came not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give His life a ransom for many (not everyone)”.
     
    #23 Marooncat79, Aug 6, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If Christ paid for all sins except the sin of unbelief, he didn't pay for any sin. Because all sin stems from unbelief. Whatever is not of faith is sin. This of course proves limited atonement logically. Scripture proves it as written.
     
    #24 1689Dave, Aug 7, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
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  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But no verse says this ? I agree that Dying without Christ means they end up in hell sadly .
     
    #25 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    why does that prove ' limited atonement ' ?
     
    #26 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  7. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    which verse ?
     
    #27 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Only a few are saved meaning he paid for their sins. Universal Atonement doesn't pay for any sin meaning all remain damned.
     
    #28 1689Dave, Aug 8, 2020
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Why doesn't the verses that say Jesus died for the world mean that he died for the sins of the world ? And why would you think that because Jesus did this that this means everyone should be saved ? how did you arrive at that conclusion?
     
    #29 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Salvation was only of the Jews. But in the promise to Abraham, it now goes to the whole world. Not each and every person just as it missed most people in its limited Jewish sense.
     
    #30 1689Dave, Aug 8, 2020
  11. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    But were talking about Jesus paying for the entire cosmos. Its not limited in any sense. He redeemed the entire creation . He died for all literally . No one was missed.
     
    #31 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The whole world will be saved in the New Heavens and earth. But this present evil world and the wicked he will destroy.
     
    #32 1689Dave, Aug 8, 2020
  13. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    See above. Esp John 10. All of it
     
    #33 Marooncat79, Aug 8, 2020
  14. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    That makes no sense? could you maybe change the wording?
     
    #34 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  15. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Whats your point ?
     
    #35 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    There are two worlds (ages) spoken of in scripture. This present evil world that will be dissolved by fire on the last day. And the world to come which is the new heavens and earth where sin and death do not exist. This saving of the world already began with the salvation of the people who will populate it, believers in Christ. It will be a saved world where all Israel (believers in Christ) will be saved.
     
    #36 1689Dave, Aug 8, 2020
  17. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    I think I may only disagree with the Israel part. Not sure why you said all Israel are believers in Christ ?
     
    #37 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    OT Israel was wicked beyond belief. They were not saved. God gave them the law under threat of death to act good, because they were not. But always a few born-again believers were among them. Jesus removed all the unbelievers when he abolished circumcision on the cross. Leaving only believers under his kingship. He then grafted believing gentiles into Israel, made up of believers only. So we are Israel, and not the broken off unbelievers, even though they hijacked the name.
     
    #38 1689Dave, Aug 8, 2020
  19. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    replacement theology ? Ok Israel messed up but not beyond recovery . Too many verses to state here . No one was ' born again in the OT that only happens after the resurrection. We are not Israel as Romans 11 clearly shows we are ' grafted ' in and only because of their temporary unbelief .
     
    #39 Barry Johnson, Aug 8, 2020
  20. Sai

    Sai Well-Known Member

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    During which time there were virtually literally no saved Gentiles. Don’t get it twisted
     
    #40 Sai, Aug 8, 2020
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