Featured Did Jesus Go to Hell after He Died?

I think you have missed my point. I believe sheol is the realm of death. The spirit of God's peole does not die. Jesus said this in John 11 prior to the cross. It is their body that dies. Their spirit never dies and cannot die as it is united to God's Spirit. Spirits that are not united to God's spirit are spiritually dead as life is found in God.

Hence, whether the body was torn in peices, cremated, buried in dirt, thrown in the sea, none of this matters as the body has died and sheol is the state of death for both the bodies of saved and lost. However, "lowest" sheol is reserved for only the wicked dead Spirits and that is why lowest sheol is always described as a place of torment and unrest.

9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.


This person is dead both in body and in spirit. His body enters into death and that is described in verse 11. Worms cover him. There are no worms in lowest sheol.

His spirit enters into lowest sheol in verses 9-10. The spirits of men are conscious after death and that is quite obvious in the real story of Lazerus and the rich man. The rich man's body was "buried" but he lifted up his eyes in torment in hades/sheol - lowest sheol.

God is also a spirit, but in order to convey to us in terms we can understand the consciousness of God's spirit, we read of the hands, eyes, ears, arm of God. Likewise, conscious pain is conveyed to us in the only language we can understand - the use of bodily parts. The body of the rich man is explicitly stated to have been "buried" and so it is his soul that is being described in langauge that conveys consciousness and pain.

The soul of Lazerus did not go to "hades" only the soul of the rich man.

 

Sheol - Hades is the grave which is certainly in the earth as opposed to above it or on the surface.

 

FRIDAY:
Luke 23
42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!”
43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you today you shall be with Me in Paradise"

SUNDAY:
John 20
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Jesus did not say he was going to paradise that same day - nor did the Thief die when Christ died - for he had to be taken down and his legs broken.

Paradise is where the throne of God is - according to Rev 2 and Rev 22.

Paul says in 2Cor 12:4 that it is in the "third heaven".

We can make stuff up about it being in hades no matter what the Bible says to the contrary - but that is not a safe path for doctrine.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Hades/sheol is not merely the grave. The rich man's body is explicitly said to have been "buried" but he/his soul went on to "hades" and nowhere is this called a parable. You can find no parable where historical persons are named (Abraham, Moses and the Prophets) or where the person is named (Lazerus). Furthermore, if it was a parable, a parable conveys a truth, and the obvious truth in this story is that there is consciousness beyond the grave, and the righteous are separated from the unrighteous, and there are no second chances, and hades is a place of conscious torment for the lost.

Why bodily parts ascribed to the rich man? Just like bodily parts are ascribed to God and yet he is a spirit - to convey realities of action and consciousness in the spirit world so that we can understand spiritual realities from our own frame of reference/experience.

Matthew 10:28 asserts that at death only the body is killed not the soul. Furthermore it asserts that God does not kill the soul until Revelation 20:15 when it is cast into the lake of fire AFTER the resurrection and judgement hence between death and resurrection IT IS STILL CONSCIOUS. Furthermore the word "destroy" is used twice in the same chapter (vv. 6, ) and NEVER means anihilation but only to "render useless." The "lost" sheep of Israel that he is sent to, are not anihilated but are rendered useless for the glory of God until they are saved. The life is not anhilated by finding it, it is rendered useless of God's glory and eternal reward if you live it for yourself. Likewise, the soul is not anhilated in the lake of fire, but it's venom of hate and sinfulness is put into a place to render it useless upon the just and toward God.

 

Hey Bob, I am not sure why you underlined the section you did in the first verse, but concerning the second:

Why would Jesus say that He was telling the truth that day? Did He not tell the truth other days?

 

Hey Bob, both of these points don't disprove the interpretation that paradise was in Hades.

John 20:17 just proves that Jesus hadn't yet ascended to the Father.

And Jesus died when He gave up the ghost, not when His legs were broken. The body without the Spirit is dead, according to James.

 

Back around the first five pages of this thread, you made a case for Hades being "down." Now you're making a case for Hades being "up."

Which is it?

Further, you already have a conclusion in mind with your questions. I personally find it irritating that you're asking questions like you're trying to be a teacher. It's like when you hide your son's favorite toy because he left it in the driveway, and then you ask him where it is. It could also be described as the "car salesman approach": asking questions that you believe people can only agree with. Never ask them a question where they can't agree with you. Unfortunately, it's not working here.

So far, Jope is the only person I've seen agree with you. In however many pages this thing has become, I've seen several people give you dissenting viewpoints with scripture and other references opposing what you've posted; and you've basically ignored those, continuing on with your already decided-upon conclusion, trying to get people to agree with you as you go.

So, for pete's sake, just get to your point instead of drawing this out with all your questions. You've already admitted that you're using study materials from an external source; if you're truly looking for opinions and debate as to the veracity of that study, then pay attention to what people are responding. You can't go on to the next point if people aren't agreeing on the previous one. And if your plan is to continue as you have, then please, as Prince Humperdink said so eloquently: "Skip to the end!"

 

Did Jesus go to hell after He died?

No! Jesus went to hell BEFORE He died!

After He died, Jesus over his 'Bone-day' BURIAL day went to his 'Bone-yard' or grave or "most holy place" as his "ark" or "coffin-grave" is called in the Scriptures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_boneyard
Aircraft boneyard is a term for a storage area for aircraft that are retired from service. Most aircraft at boneyards are either kept for storage or turned into scrap metal. Deserts, such as those in the Southwestern United States, are good locations for boneyards since the dry conditions reduce corrosion.QE

I suppose therefore the date and day entered in the logbook of each of these ‘stored’, ‘retired’ and ‘kept’ airplanes will the ‘BONE-DAY’ of each?!

“…to be turned into scrap…” in fact!
But of Jesus Christ it was written, that “being delivered by the DETERMINATE counsel and foreknowledge / providence / CARE of God—God having loosed the pains of death [in his service in life] … foresaw that (He) should not be moved [away ‘for scrap’, but that] (his) flesh shall rest in hope [of restoration / resurrection]. Because Thou wilt not leave my soul / life in hell [of ‘service’ / ‘action’ in “the SUFFERING / PASSOVER of Yahweh”] or allow thine Holy One—[“speaking of …” His Grave]—to SEE CORRUPTION / undergo dissembling of “FLESH” / or ‘severance’ or ‘braking’ of “BONES”. But God seeing this before, spake of the RESURRECTION of Christ [“on the third day”], that his soul was not left in hell [of faithful SUFFERING IN LIFE], neither his flesh did see corruption [under faithful WATCH of God in the GRAVE].”

 

The most important things that indeed took up almost the whole of "that night to be solemnly observed" according to BOTH the passover SCRIPTURES, and, the passover’s EVENTS are the SPIRITUAL SUFFERING of Jesus, of, “that night”—the sufferings that BELONGED TO, “that night”, the “suffering / passover the Christ OUGHT TO HAVE SUFFERED”—“ought to have suffered” in “MY SOUL UNTO DEATH”!

Jesus suffered those “PAINS OF DEATH” alive, sober, conscious, willing, “earnestly DESIRING”, and OBEDIENT, “Servant of the LORD”.

The “BEGINNING” of Christ’s passover-suffering is “the most important” and “FIRST in place” in both time and grandeur of his passover-suffering. HERE is where and how and when Jesus DESCENDED TO HELL and, “like Jonas”, God “cast Me into the deep, in the midst of the seas and the floods compassed Me about and all Thy billows and Thy waves passed over Me … and I cried unto the LORD from the belly of hell by reason of MINE AFFLICTION.”

The Jews ALL THE WHILE insisted that the governor like their high priests, follow the Law strictly. But all the Roman Catholics see or can think of, are the Laws that ‘legally’ >yelled< for the blood and abuse of God’s Christ. Irony the cruel master of wit.

 

Originally Posted by BobRyan
FRIDAY:
Luke 23
42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!”
43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you today you shall be with Me in Paradise"

I emphasize vs 42 because there we see the request is for an event in the future when both of them would be alive.

In vs 43 Jesus is making the point that although this is a low point for him - when all the world is against Him AND he has "become sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in him" and he is currently undergoing the wrath of God against sin - ... on that low of a day - He STILL retains the power as Savior to offer salvation "to the least of these".

in Christ,

Bob

 

As R.C Sproul, [FONT=&quot]Burton Coffman, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Matthew Henry , [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Albert Barnes and others have noted - this parable about praying to the dead, and Abraham in sovereign control over who can be resurrected, and no appeal at all to God for the matter - is classic parable - by every measure.[/FONT] ( I simply assumed everyone had figured that out by now.)

in Christ,

Bob

 

That is true. Those "who have fallen asleep" are those who Christ will "Bring with Him" according to 1Thess 4.

The soul sleep teaching of the Bible is not a claim that the soul no longer exists - just that the person is in a dormant state.

In the actual Bible (specifically the NT) it means "anihilation". as in -- destroy by reducing to ashes.

And Jesus shows a progression from "Kill" to "destroy". Man cannot kill the soul - but God can destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell.

[FONT=&quot]Matt 10[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
28 ""Do not fear those [/FONT]who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).


[FONT=&quot]Luke 12[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
4 ""I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those [/FONT]who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do.
5 ""But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell[FONT=&quot]; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

[/FONT]
Luke 17:29
but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. (destroy - Apollumi )


[FONT=&quot]Jude [/FONT]
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal (everlasting) fire.

[FONT=&quot]2 Peter 2:6[/FONT]
and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

 

Hey Bob,

If you believe the comma should go after "today", so that Jesus was saying that he was telling the truth that day, why would he bother to say that he was telling the truth that day? Didn't He always tell the truth?

The comma should go before "today", so that it reads:

"Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43, ESV, colour and bold emphases mine).​

 

Why does Jacob (another patriarch) confess that Sheol was his destiny (Gen. 37:35)?

Why does Solomon say that Sheol was the common destiny to all men (Eccles. 9:10)?

The rich man and lazarus passage (Luke 16) is a real event. Abraham, a patriarch, went to Sheol/Hades, as did Jacob.

 

This passage of Lazarus and the rich man is in congruence with the belief of the Jews.

the carrying up of the soul of the righteous by Angels is certainly in accordance with Jewish teaching, though stripped of all legendary details, such as about the number and the greetings of the Angels. But it is also fully in accordance with Christian thought of the ministry of Angels. Again, as regards the expression ‘Abraham’s bosom,’ it occurs, although not frequently, in Jewish writings. On the other hand, the appeal to Abraham as our father is so frequent, his presence and merits are so constantly invoked; notably, he is so expressly designated as he who receives (מקבל) the penitent into Paradise, that we can see how congruous especially to the higher Jewish teaching, which dealt not in coarsely sensuous descriptions of gan Eden, or Paradise, the phrase ‘Abraham’s bosom’ must have been. Nor surely can it be necessary to vindicate the accord with Christian thinking of a figurative expression, that likens us to children lying lovingly in the bosom of Abraham as our spiritual father.
2. Dives and Lazarus after death: The ‘great contrast’ fully realised, and how to enter into the Kingdom. - Here also the main interest centres in Dives. He also has died and been buried. Thus ends all his exaltedness before men. The next scene is in Hades or sheol the place of the disembodied spirits before the final Judgment. It consists of two divisions: the one of consolation, with all the faithful gathered unto Abraham as their father; the other of fiery torment. Thus far in accordance with the general teaching of the New Testament. As regards the details, they evidently represent the views current at the time among the Jews. According to them, the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life were the abode of the blessed. Nay, in common belief, the words of Gen_2:10 : ‘a river went out of Eden to water the garden,’ indicated that this Eden was distinct from, and superior to, the garden in which Adam had been originally placed. With reference to it, we read that the righteous in gan Eden see the wicked in gehinom, and rejoice; and, similarly, that the wicked in gehinom see the righteous sitting beatified in gan Eden, and their souls are troubled.​

Edersheim, A. THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS THE MESSIAH. Book 4, Chapter 18, II.



Also, the book of Enoch describes Hades:

Enoch Chapter 21

Enoch 21:1 Then I made a circuit to a place in which nothing was completed.

Enoch 21:2 And there I beheld neither the tremendous workmanship of an exalted heaven, nor of an established earth, but a desolate spot, prepared, and terrific.

Enoch 21:3 There, too, I beheld seven stars of heaven bound in it together, like great mountains, and like a blazing fire. I exclaimed, For what species of crime have they been bound, and why have they been removed to this place? Then Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, and who conducted me, answered: Enoch, wherefore do you ask; wherefore do you reason with yourself, and anxiously inquire? These are those of the stars which have transgressed the commandment of the most high God; and are here bound, until the infinite number of the days of their crimes be completed.

Enoch 21:4 From there I afterwards passed on to another terrific place;

Enoch 21:5 Where I beheld the operation of a great fire blazing and glittering, in the midst of which there was a division. Columns of fire struggled together to the end of the abyss, and deep was their descent. But neither its measurement nor magnitude was I able to discover; neither could I perceive its origin. Then I exclaimed, How terrible is this place, and how difficult to explore!

Enoch 21:6 Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, answered and said: Enoch, why are you alarmed and amazed at this terrific place, at the sight of this place of suffering? This, he said, is the prison of the angels; and here they are kept for ever.

Enoch Chapter 22

Enoch 22:1 From there I proceeded to another spot, where I saw on the west a great and lofty mountain, a strong rock, and four delightful places.

Enoch 22:2 Internally it was deep, capacious, and very smooth; as smooth as if it had been rolled over: it was both deep and dark to behold.

Enoch 22:3 Then Raphael, one of the holy angels who were with me, answered and said, These are the delightful places where the spirits, the souls of the dead, will be collected; for them were they formed; and here will be collected all the souls of the sons of men.

Enoch 22:4 These places, in which they dwell, shall they occupy until the day of judgment, and until their appointed period.

Enoch 22:5 Their appointed period will be long, even until the great judgment. And I saw the spirits of the sons of men who were dead; and their voices reached to heaven, while they were accusing.

Enoch 22:6 Then I inquired of Raphael, an angel who was with me, and said, Whose spirit is that, the voice of which reaches to heaven, and accuses?

Enoch 22:7 He answered, saying, This is the spirit of Abel who was slain by Cain his brother; and who will accuse that brother, until his seed be destroyed from the face of the earth;

Enoch 22:8 Until his seed perish from the seed of the human race.

Enoch 22:9 At that time therefore I inquired respecting him, and respecting the general judgment, saying, Why is one separated from another? He answered, Three separations have been made between the spirits of the dead, and thus have the spirits of the righteous been separated.

Enoch 22:10 Namely, by a chasm, by water, and by light above it.

Enoch 22:11 And in the same way likewise are sinners separated when they die, and are buried in the earth; judgment not overtaking them in their lifetime.

Enoch 22:12 Here their souls are separated. Moreover, abundant is their suffering until the time of the great judgment, the castigation, and the torment of those who eternally execrate, whose souls are punished and bound there for ever.

Enoch 22:13 And thus has it been from the beginning of the world. Thus has there existed a separation between the souls of those who utter complaints, and of those who watch for their destruction, to slaughter them in the day of sinners.

Enoch 22:14 A receptacle of this sort has been formed for the souls of unrighteous men, and of sinners; of those who have completed crime, and associated with the impious, whom they resemble. Their souls shall not be annihilated in the day of judgment, neither shall they arise from this place. Then I blessed God,

Enoch 22:15 And said, Blessed by my Lord, the Lord of glory and of righteousness, who reigns over all for ever and for ever.​

Translated from Ethiopic by Richard Laurence, London, 1883. Retrieved from http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/enoch.html

(A good source concerning the book of Enoch: http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/1enoch.html)