Did Jesus Have Faith?

Is this the same spirit that Jesus commended to the Father?

Gen 7:22 all in whose nostrils [is] breath of a living spirit -- of all that [is] in the dry land -- have died.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

And then the Word who became flesh died.

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commit My spirit.' [fn] " Having said this, He breathed His last.

Just like thoes in Gen. 7:22

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

Faith is faith. You either believe your friend when he tells you something, or you don't. You either believe in his abilities, or you don't.

It's the same with God. You either believe His word, or you don't. You either believe in his abilites, or you don't.

 

No, it's not the same. I can see my friend; I can't see God.

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Heb. 11:1

 

If your friend told you about an event you didn't witness, would you believe him?

That's faith.

 

I think it is you that is redefining what faith is. Faith means to believe on someone, or to trust them. It means to rely upon them. And there are many words used in scripture that say this.

Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.


2 Kings 18:21 Now, behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt, on which if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt unto all that trust on him.

Faith means to trust upon or lean upon. It means to depend upon or rely upon. You can trust someone you see. If you allow your teenager to take the family car for the evening, you are excercising faith in them. You are trusting upon them to drive carefully and not wreck the car. Now, while they are out with the car, you can't see them. You don't know they drove safely until they arrive home later that night.

If you did not trust them, you would not allow them to take the car out of your sight. Or you would ride along with them.

Have you ever heard of the trust test? This is where you stand in front of a friend with your back to them and allow yourself to fall backward, trusting them to catch you. You can't see them, you depend upon them to catch you. This is faith, this is trust.

It is not enough to simply believe Jesus is the Son of God, you must trust the very saving of your soul into his hands. You must cast yourself upon him and rely on him completely to save you.

You seem to think if a person simply sees someone they cannot have faith in them, but this is easily disproven. The disciples all saw Jesus face to face. They saw him perform miracles as did many thousands of people. But the scriptures say they believed on him.

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

The way you seem to understand faith, these people could not believe or have faith in Jesus simply because they saw him. They saw his miracles. So, your understanding of what faith is is flawed. Faith means to depend upon. When the Jews saw the miracles Jesus did, then many understood him to be the promised Christ which they looked for to save them. They believed he would come and save them, they did not believe they could save themselves. So you see they had faith in Jesus.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Here, faith is described as looking to. Again, it means to rely upon, to depend upon.

And this is what Jesus told Nicodemus.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

You know the story of the Israelites when they sinned and God sent fiery serpents among them. And Moses made a brass serpent on a pole. When they were bitten they were to look to this sepent and they would not die of the poisonous bites. So faith is a looking to, a depending upon another. And Nicodemus understood exactly what Jesus meant when he said this.

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Jesus directly compared believing in him to this looking to the brasen serpent when he spoke to Nicodemus. This is what faith means. They could see the brasen serpent with their eyes, yet they could trust or lean upon it to save them from the poisonous bites they received.

So, the point is, you can trust someone or something you see with your eyes. Whenever you drive over a bridge you are showing faith, you are trusting your very life that the bridge is safe. You don't know you are safe until you reach the other side.

 

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

I said in the post before that it is not enough to simply believe Jesus is the Son of God to be saved, you have to rely upon Jesus to save you. And that is what this passage is showing.

Many religious groups believe Jesus is the Son of God. The Catholics believe this, they really do. But they do not depend upon Jesus to save them, they depend upon the sacrements. They depend on their own works. And this is what you see in verse 22. Notice how these people claimed good works, they prophesied in Jesus's name, they cast out devils and did many good works. But Jesus said he never knew them.

Then Jesus explains what truly believing on him is. It is like the foundation of a house. The whole weight of the house is supported by the foundation. If the foundation is weak, then the house will collapse when a storm comes. But if the foundation is strong, the house will hold.

And notice how Jesus shows those who truly trust as those who not only hear his words, but perform them.

When the Jews asked Jesus what work they could do to do the work of God, Jesus told them to believe on him.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The one work Jesus told us we must do is believe on him. This means to trust or rely upon him to save us. We have to give up all self-effort to save ourselves and cast ourselves upon him, depending upon him to save us. Jesus has to be our foundation. We must put the entire weight of our salvation in his hands and depend upon him to save us.

But we are trusting, we will not actually know we are saved until we arrive in heaven.

And Jesus placed his spirit in his Father's hands and depended upon him to raise him from the dead.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

I cannot fully understand the trinity, no one can. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one. There is one God. But at the same time they seem to have individual identities. I cannot explain this, but this is what the scriptures show.

Did you realize Jesus did not have the Holy Ghost until he was baptized by John the Baptist?

Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

The scriptures say it is impossible to please God without faith. Here the Father says he was well pleased with Jesus. So obviously Jesus had faith.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Up until this time, Jesus would have appeared to be an ordinary man. There is no record of him performing any miracles until after the Holy Spirit descended upon him. So, it would seem that the Holy Ghost is what gave him his power to do miracles. I can't be dogmatic about this, but there is no record of him performing any miraculous works until after this.

He did however have knowledge of who he was. John the Baptist recognized him as the Christ, and Jesus himself knew himself to be the Christ. Jesus knew he was the Son of God when he was a young boy.

Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Jesus was twelve when he said this, and he knew exactly who he was, and what he had to do. But he perfomed no miracles until after the Holy Spirit came upon him.

So, while the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one, they also seem to act as individuals and have different responsibilities as well. It was the Father who raised Jesus, but he used the Holy Spirit to do so.

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead ; )

So, it was the Father who raised Jesus from the dead. Jesus entrusted his spirit into his Father's hands, and depended upon him to raise him.

And not only that, the scriptures say Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father. So here they act like individuals, and the Father made a promise to Jesus. This takes trust. When someone promises you something, you trust them to perform that promise.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

So obviously our Father had promised Jesus the Holy Ghost and he received it. So Jesus trusted or relied upon his Father to perform his promise.

Not saying I understand all this, but this is what the scriptures say.

 

I just showed you scriptures that showed Jesus had faith.

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Peter said Jesus had received the promise of the Holy Ghost from his Father. Why is this difficult for you to understand? Obviously God the Father had promised Jesus the Holy Ghost.

Now, what do you do with a promise? You either believe it or you don't. What else can you do with a promise?

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Had the apostles and disciples received the Holy Ghost when Jesus said this? No. Jesus was waiting for the Father to fulfill this promise just as they were waiting. This is another word used in scripture to define faith. It is a waiting, a depending.

Psa 25:5 Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.

Psa 25:21 Let integrity and uprightness preserve me; for I wait on thee.

Psa 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

Psa 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

Psa 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

Psa 62:5 My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.

I could show you literally dozens of scriptures that show faith is a waiting. It is a depending upon. It is an expectation as shown in Psa 62:5.

And Jesus exercised this faith as well. He trusted his spirit into his Father's hands and waited or depended on the Father to raise him in three days.

I don't know what else to tell you. The scriptures themselves say Jesus commended his spirit into his Father's hands. The definition of commended is to entrust. The scriptures say Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit from his Father, I hardly believe Jesus did not believe this promise. What can you do with any promise except believe it or not? Abraham was said to have great faith and be persuaded that what God had promised he was able to perform.

Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Our very salvation depends on a promise. Jesus said if we come to him we will not be cast out. This is a promise.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

I came to Jesus in my heart. Am I in heaven yet? No. I am waiting, I am depending on Jesus to keep his promise. I am trusting or relying on him.

If God the Father made a promise to Jesus the Son, it is no different from you making a promise to your earthly son. You either believe it or not. There is no such thing as a promise without the concept of faith. And Jesus himself showed he believed the promises of his Father.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Jesus depended on his Father, the scriptures say so.

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption

My soul? Who is speaking? It is Jesus speaking.

Peter confirmed that this verse was speaking of Jesus. Who had control of Jesus's soul? The Father. And he had promised to raise Jesus and did.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

 

So, the trinity is a New Testament concept and did not always exist!

Cheers,

Jim

 

Where did that come from? The trinity is shown from the beginning of scripture.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

By the way, to those that teach man fell in the garden, what do the scriptures say? They say man became like God, to know good and evil. Is this evil? If so, then God is evil, because man became like God in this respect, God said so himself.

No, man became conscious of sin. Before he had been innocent like a small child that does not understand right from wrong, and is not aware when he is naked.

So, the scriptures do not teach that man had a moral fall in the garden. Man had the ability to sin when he was created, else they could not have possibly sinned when tempted. God cannot be tempted to do evil, man can.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Man was never absolutely morally perfect as God is, else we would be God. Man had the ability to sin from day one (as also did the angels), so man was never equal to God ever. There was no fall, the curse God pronounced upon them mentions not one word of a curse upon their moral nature. And to know good and evil is not evil either, else God would be evil.

 

I've been trying to show in all my post the same thing that Winman is saying.
The word became flesh ie a human being. Everything he did while in the flesh was by faith in the Father. When he died and was buried, he was dead. If the Father had not raised him he would be just like David. He would still be buried and would have seen corruption. By the way Winman when was that promise given?

 

That's not the same thing at all - that's an issue of whether I would believe him or not. Faith in God is believing He exists as He has revealed himself even though I've never seen him.

 

If Jesus the man was dead, as dead as all humans become, then what happened to Jesus the God? Do we have a duality of persons in Jesus the Christ?

Cheers,

Jim

 

Looking at the bronze serpent and believing that you would be healed still requires an act of faith because you could not tell from looking at it that you would be healed. So that has nothing to do with seeing something and knowing it would work or whatever.

I am not showing faith when I drive across a bridge: I know it can fail or fall. I never know what will happen. When I drive across a bridge, for one thing, I can see it. It's there. I just take into account that the chances are that I will make it across. That is not faith.

 

The Scriptures show us that Jesus was raised by the Trinity. In addition to scriptures telling us that God raised Jesus, we have:

Jesus answered them, " Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." John 2:19

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Rom. 8:11

Jesus knew he would be raised - by God, by the Holy Spirit, and by himself. The Trinity acts in concert here. Jesus did not have to have faith that he would raised!

 

Do you trust the pages of the Bible you hold, or the author, Jesus Christ, who wrote the promises contained in the Bible.

When you cross the bridge, in essence you are trusting the engineers and the men who built the bridge. Those are the ones you cannot see. As you can see the Bible in your hand, the result of what Christ has given you, you can see the bridge, the result of the work of men who have gone before you. You are putting your trust in their work as you cross their bridge. Remember not every bridge will hold you, especially you and your car. Not every bridge is infallible. In fact no bridge is. But God's word is infallible.

 

What I trust or believe has nothing to do with Jesus having faith.

No, I am not trusting any engineers; I am usually driving over a bridge because I have to or I don't think about it. If I have to trust anyone, I am actually trusting God to keep me safe in case the bridge isn't!

 

To discuss the topic "Did Jesus Have Faith," we must come to an agreement on what faith is. So far I don't see that. Faith is not relegated to the realm of redemption. It's grasp reaches far beyond the metaphysical. We trust one another. I may trust your understanding on the cults and trust your answer on a question that you give me, rather than a RCC site. Why? I know you (from this board). Some people have more faith and trust in their government than they have in their family. Sad but true.

If you were to write a check to your pastor, and another to a beggar who just walked in from off the street, which one would you trust to pay you back. Why? Faith is also dependent on relationship.
Faith is not blind.
Faith always has an object.
Faith is based on facts.
Biblical faith is based on the facts of the Bible--the gospel
Faith in everyday life is based on the facts of the ones that we know, how well we know them. It is not blind.

Here is one of the best examples of faith in Scripture:
Concerning Abraham, Paul writes:

Romans 4:20-21 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Faith is being fully persuaded that what God has promised God will perform.

However outside of the Bible, I can also be fully persuaded that my wife will have supper ready for me when I get home. That is because I know her; I have lived with her many years; I can depend on her.
But unlike God, my wife will fail for she is human. She may become sick. There may be other circumstances that get in the way. Does that destroy my faith? No. I realize my wife, like all others, is fallible. But God is infallible and never breaks his promise.

Did Jesus have faith? If Jesus never exercised faith, then how could he not have been fully man. He was the God-man: fully God and fully man at the same time. Let us not take away from his humanity and say that Jesus could not have faith. He was the perfect son of man, as Luke portrays Him.

 

1Cr 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 1Cr 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 1Cr 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Now you can call this the trinity if you care to. However what I know for sure is we have at the lest two beings with one dead in the ground and the other well everywhere. Jim1999 is also right Christ is Faith and if God had not raised the one who became flesh, Faith would still be in the ground.

Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead: Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, [now] no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

Here we have these same two again and one says to the other, "this day I have begotten thee" . That is to say this day that I raised you up I have born thee. Also why would Jesus the Christ need the sure mercies of David?