Did Jesus 'rest' in the tomb?

BR:
"Christ does not focus on "The work he was doing while dead" "

GE
The words never of GE: but the precise words of the very BobRyan himself: "The work he was doing while dead" ". Ja, indeed the precise act and responsibility of the very BobRyan, who put these words and this FALSITY between the teeth of Gerhard Ebersoehn.

 

BR:
"Christ does not focus on "The work he was doing while dead" "

GE
But, as sometimes - virtually always - truth can be found in and from the mouth of satan himself - the precise words, "The work he was doing while dead" DO in fact contain TRUTH!

For again, Christ, even in the tomb, interred, "while dead" - like His Father - no moment is found indulgent, passive, doing nothing! Even while, in and through being dead and interred, the Christ - with his Father - WORKS VICTORY OVER GRAVE AND DEATH. He - They - WORK on still, not having reached the utmost height yet; they 'energise' still in Almighty Achievement ... UNTIL from the dead, from death, and from the grave, He is RAISED, CHRIST TRIUMPHATOR, VICTOR -- UNTIL God - and His Christ - "ENTER INTO REST" - Sabbath's Rest, because not only is Gods (their) Victory OVER DEATH GRAVE AND SIN - 'spiritual' -: It also is bodily and temporary - 'three dimentional' : REALITY also includes TIME, and therefore, is Christ's resurrection from the dead, the three, nay, four things as I have enumerated above from Genesis 2 and Hebrews 4:8-10.

Take it or leave it; be the poorer or the richer for accepting or rejecting!

 

Ed Sutton:
““My point was, that the "presentation" of the Son to the Father was physical, as well. One could get sidetracked here, I guess, by relying on a translation or translations that render Jesus' words to Mary as "Do not 'touch' me...", I guess, but that is a less than ideal rendering here, IMO. I suggest that the NASB is much clearer, here, in this rendering of John 20:17: 17, Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" Jn.20:17 – NASB. A short time after the encounter with Mary, Jesus was "held by his feet" (Mt. 28:9), and he specifically said to the disciples to "Handle Me and see..." (Lk. 24:39), less than 24 hrs, by any reckoning, of the encounter with Mary, and later, 'commanded' Thomas to place his hands into Jesus' side. (Jn. 20: 27)

The point was not "to avoid any 'physical contact'", at all, in His words to Mary, but rather to announce that His work was of a greater scope, than Mary was realizing. He was no longer going to be here, 'physically' in the presence of Mary, in the manner in which she had known, and He was telling her this, in so many words.”

GE:
Dear Ed Sutton,
I appreciate your kindness; but allow me to explain—

I understand an ‘earthly’ exaltation of Jesus, and more than merely a ‘physical’ one. I don’t see postponement of Jesus’ exaltation to forty days or fourteen hundred years after His Resurrection (like the Seventh Day Adventists do). His Resurrection was, Christ’s ‘exaltation’; was, his “Coming”, “in the flesh”, as John says in four places in his Letters. When Jesus’ “corruptibility”, when his “mortality”, “put on” “incorruptibility” and “immortality”, Death (was) swallowed up in – “Victory” – in nothing provisionally or temporarily, but immediately and instantaneously, “in the twinkling of an eye”. It was “WHEN God raised Him from the dead”, that God “exalted Him”. It was IN raising Christ, that Jesus was “raised IN the glory of the Father”. Jesus was “Declared the Son of God WITH POWER, according to the Spirit of Holiness, BY, the resurrection from the dead”.

It is completely immaterial whether Jesus had been touched physically or not on Sunday morning. How ridiculous the Seventh Day Adventist hallucination is, become the more glaring the longer Jesus during the forty days before He ascended, “showed Himself to many” but long had not ‘ascended to the Father’. He invited Thomas come and touch me, a few hours after He appeared to the women.

Precisely what you have said, “A short time after the encounter with Mary, Jesus was "held by his feet" (Mt. 28:9), and he specifically said to the disciples to "Handle Me and see...".”

 

BR:
"Is this a wild and confused argument that SDAs don't think Christ actually came as the Messiah "in the flesh"??"

GE
First. What do you mean with 'came' - "came as the Messiah"? This is not a GE vs SDA issue. It is as old as Christianity.

To answer, I don't accept, (John Stott, e.g.), John with using the word 'erxomai' primarily means what we normally take for the 'incarnation' - the birth of Jesus. Of course I believe Jesus was born exactly and fully what He had been in dying, and in rising was and in returning will be, glorified, namely, in the flesh of the human body. John where he says Jesus "came", in the flesh - virtually exclusively, has in mind Christ's 'coming' in and through victory: Like when after having been baptised by the Holy Spirit, "came" in the flesh although by the Spirit, and after that He was raised from the dead, "came" in the flesh although by the Spirit, and at His Return, will again "come" in the flesh.

So when the SDAs suppose Jesus 'in the flesh' when He 'came' into the Triumph of His suffering and death, they declare he suffered nor died as this God-Man, but "as man". HERE, they differ no bit with or from the Docetists or Marcionists.

Just one point on one point. For now.

 

Not John or any writer of the NT uses the word 'erxomai / come' for Jesus 'incarnation'. They do use it though as the equivalent of Jesus' 'parousia' or 'epiphany' - that is, 'appearance in glory' however, wherever, the Christ Victorious. Jesus in and by entering into the humiliation of the cross, entered into the glorification of Himself as well as of the Father. John 17 tells. AS, Jesus 'came in the flesh' HE CONQUERED THROUGH, IN, AND WITH, RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, SO, He 'came in the flesh' AS HE CONQUERED THROUGH, IN, AND WITH SUFFERING AND DEATH. Jesus always, 'COMES', Christ, the Son of God the Son of Man undivided, never severed from Himself or from His Divinity in the least way. Thus He enetered into death and the grave; "THIS Jesus whom you crucified, God raised from the dead!"

You, BobRyan, have been opposing this TRUTH all the way. Thus have Seventh Day Adventism.

 

BR:
"Is this a wild and confused speculation that maybe SDAs don't think Christ was physically raised from the dead on week-day-one 2,000 years ago????"

GE
I don't 'speculate that maybe SDAs don't think Christ was physically raised from the dead on week-day-one 2,000 years ago. I know what they think. They think just what Sunday-worshipping Christians wrongly think, that Christ was physically raised from the dead on week-day-one 2,000 years ago. So what do you protest, actually, against me?

 

BR:
"If as you claim to define the term "exaultation is resurrection" then we have Christ exaulted on week-day-one not the "Friday before that"."

GE
As I have explained above, Jesus 'coming' in all the NT Scriptures, when emphatically (not like when He would come into Nazareth or such ordinary comings or goings) is Jesus 'coming' the Glorious, the Victor, and always, "in the flesh", meaning, real, Human, real God.

Yes, Jesus' entombment on Friday, was, on the one hand, still His further, glorious and glorifying humiliation of suffering. So, His stay in the grave; which was still His work as well as the Father's work of glorifying and exalting Christ. But neither was the EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER AND WORKING, YET. Because the ultimate, the finishing of ALL the works of God and everything God had made when He created it, that ultimate, God finished and perfected, WHEN HE RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD".

 

BR:
"If as you claim to define the term "exaultation is resurrection" then we have Christ exaulted on week-day-one not the "Friday before that"."

GE
So even Jesus' appearances of the First Day were an exalting of His greatness and glory; but NO LONGER THAT ULTIMATE which I have just described as pertaining His resurrection from the dead. NOR WOULD ANY AFTERWARDS BE OF THE SAME MAGNITUDE OR GLORY! Even Christ's Return (which we all pray be soon, o God!) receives or will receive its glory, from the glory of God's Fulness of Glory of the Resurrection of Christ.

 

Herein do we see the Glory above the lesser, of the greater: That the First Day of the week through the appearances of Jesus did not receive the same of God's attentions that the Sabbath received through God's raising of Christ from the dead. The first is not to a remembrance of; the latter is: "Remember the Sabbath Day BECAUSE God on the Seventh Day from all His works, RESTED!"

 

BR:
"If your argument is that "the Worshp that Thomas gave to Christ is different from the worship Mary offerred at the tomb" so that one is rejected while another accepted -- then make your case -"

GE
Not Thomas' or Mary's was "the Worshp that (they) gave to Christ". Both expressed their disbelief - their surprise, merely. And Thomas' even could have been just 'human reaction' (so typical of Americans) - an exclamation merely, 'My Lord and my God! It is you!' (May God forgive if I blaspheme!) But we have no proof Thomas' was 'Worship', he 'gave to Christ'. Even were it worship in the true sense of the word, would that make the day the Day of Christian Worship? Even if it do, then would Monday be the Christian Day of Worship?, For strictly speaking, Thomas didn't utter his exclamation when it still was the First Day, but when it was Monday, Jewish and Bible-reckoning of the day.

 

For any 'outside' observer, BobRyan, he from proper perspective must needs think you are reasoning 'pro-Sunday' and 'contra-Sabbath'!

 

I asked the question, 'Did Jesus rest in the tomb?' I maintain, Jesus while in the tomb not in the least rested, but still was doing, yes working, the will of His Father, the task given Him to perform, to give His Life for sin, His Work of Salvation. Salvation without Jesus' being buried, being closed in in the grave, having been lying in the grave, and having "COME" from the grave, would not have been "finished"; not "all the works of God", would have been completed. Note well, I have said, not all the works OF GOD, would have been completed. For in the grave of Joseph, was not lying One whom before He died, was severed from His Godhead, from His 'Deity', from His Divinity. Jesus 'came' from the grave, the same Person but glorified, Who into the tomb, 'came', but dead.

 

GE
I don't understand you, and I think you don't understand me. All I said was that Christians generally WRONGLY believe Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday. 'On Sunday', is what is wrong; because Jesus rose from the dead "In Sabbath Day's-time". SDAs like Christianity generally reject this TRUTH.

 

Jesus is Lord!

“He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing —that mortality might be swallowed up of life— is God.” “No man can say that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Spirit; there are differences of administration, but (it is) the same Lord.” One thing is for sure then, “No man speaking by the Spirit of God, calleth Jesus accursed” be it after or, before the ‘difference of administration’.

Now God help me confess and declare,
(1) I said not, that Thomas blasphemed; I said, may God help me I, blaspheme not.
(2) I said not Thomas of unbelief, exclaimed, “My Lord and my God!”; I said Thomas in disbelief, so exclaimed.
(3) I said not Thomas made false confession; I said he, saying, “My Lord and my God”, did not worship.
For Thomas so exclaimed because he got to know (or recognised) Christ ‘in the flesh’ by touching – not ‘by faith’. He so to speak ‘saw the face of Christ in the flesh’ (Col2:1). “Though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more (thus).” 2Cor5:16.

I say, I maintain yet, Thomas worshipped not; for do we worship to his example? Is to believe to touch? It is not; therefore Thomas worshipped not. Or we must say in order to worship we should still cling to His feet as did all the disciples on Jesus’ appearing to them on that evening. To the women earlier He also said, “Touch Me not!” Jesus’ order to Thomas therefore to touch Him was no command for worship, and the response of Thomas, was no act of worship.

“There are differences of administration, but the same Lord.” The Holy Spirit was not yet poured out; “Wait for the Promise of the Father which ye have heard of Me!” “And it came to pass when (after) He was parted from them and carried up into heaven, They worshipped Him.” Lk24:51-52. “The day of Pentecost was fully come when they all were with one accord in one place”. Then, they truly ‘worshipped’, these things occurring, in themselves being the true worship of the Christ. Thomas nor any disciples before, ‘worshipped’ Him; Thomas nor any disciples that night of the First Day in the upper room, ‘worshipped’ as God willed to be served and worshipped— “in Spirit and in Truth”— to be confessed, served, worshipped, preached and proclaimed according to the ‘different’ and new ‘ministration’ or ‘dispensation’ ‘Promised’.

Therefore to argue the behaviour of the disciples set us an example in Sunday-sacredness, is the only thing ‘blasphemous’ because a lie from its beginnings in minds eager to worship God according to their own willing and conveniences.