Did Jesus use His own divine attributes...

Herald,

Amen to that!

Here's kenosis as defined by Theopedia which is a good short definition:

http://www.theopedia.com/Kenosis

Christianity maintains that Jesus did not “empty” himself of any of his divinity in the incarnation, although it is true that his divine attributes were veiled. When the Kenosis theory concludes that Jesus is or was less than God (as has been the case in the past), it is regarded as heresy.

There are many times Jesus did not specifically claim it was the "Spirit" or the "Spirit of God" in His miracle workings. Besides, as I've mentioned, God IS Spirit and Jesus IS God. Given the Chalcedonian Creed of 451AD which states Jesus was/is fully God and fully man, why would we think He necessarily limited Himself?

I've been reading a lot about kenosis. Classical theologians state that the Incarnation was a taking on rather than an emptying. The Word added a human nature (not a human person as that would be Adoptionism). Yet, Jesus was clearly limited in physical presence in His physical body and not omnipresent as human bodies necessarily are. However, as Spirit, he WAS omnipresent existing extra carnem, outside the body, in order to sustain the cosmos (Col 1:17; Heb 1:3).

Here's an example of Jesus performing a miracle in which it's specifically NOT attributed to anyone else but Him:

22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?” [Matt 12:22-23, NIV 1984]

 

Message deleted as it was a duplicate.

 

Sorry for the duplicate. The first one didn't appear to have posted.

 

in the Incarnation pf God the Son, something new and unique happened to God, as he became a Human being, one w/o sin nature as rest of us though...

he was confined to same physical limitations as we all are, had to eat/sleep/tired, limited to one location etc...

jesus cast out demons by the HS, as he himself said, and He was empowered by same Spirit as the Christ"annoited One" full of grace and full of HS...

Jesus also had to recharge His spiritual cells when using that power, as he communed with His father in communion daily!

 

"Did Jesus use His own divine attributes...
...or live as a fully human man (though never ceasing to be fully God...simply never using His own divine abilities) who was enabled by God, Holy Spirit, to perform miracles while accomplishing redemption of mankind?"

No, He did not use His own ability. He shed His Godly authority to become like us. He said the works He performed were not His own doing, but the Fathers. He was fully man in perfect relationship with the Father.

 

have to remember though that he did things ONLY God could do also while on Earth if form of a man!
Forgace sins, raised the dead, walked on water etc!

resisted sinning by empowering of the HS and communion with Father, but others things ONLY He can still do!

 

My one question to you: How did the Word sustain the cosmos while Incarnate [cf. Col 1:17; Heb 1:3]?

 

Let's examine this Scripture:

21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. [John 5:21; NIV 1984]

This Scripture makes a direct comparison that just as the Father gives life; so, the Son gives lift to whom HE is pleased. By the plain reading of this verse, Jesus had divine authority AND power to give eternal life ["eternal life" made clear in v 24]. This identified Him as God as the Jews already understood and wanted to kill Him [v 18]. To make this into Jesus giving life by the power of the Holy Spirit seems to read in the text. However, assuming it is true that this was done by the Holy Spirit then, given that the Apostles did many of the same miracles as Jesus by the power of the same Holy Spirit, were they also able to "give life to whom THEY chose"? Of course not. This seems to make it more plausible that Jesus Himself "gave life" rather Jesus empowered by the Holy Spirit.

This is not to negate the times when it appears Jesus DID rely solely on the Holy Spirit, of course. However, we must keep in mind that God is Spirit. And, as I mentioned above, the Father is God; Jesus is God; and, the Holy Spirit is God.

 

God the Father still ruling in/from heaven, while the HS was present in person of Christ here upon the earth!

NOT Modualism, its not God in three different forms but same person, its 3 persons who are seperate, yet one in essense and agreement!

 

Exactly, it's not Modalism nor tritheism (three Gods). However, to construe that it was the Father who sustained the cosmos is reading into the text (eisegesis) rather than extracting from the text (exegesis).

 

God the father was still residing in heaven at time Chrsit was upon the earth, is only thing was saying!