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Did Oakland Police Intentionally Shoot Marine Vet Scott Olsen In the Head?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    FAL - waiting for that proof.
     
  2. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Hang in there it's coming.
     
  3. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Just so we're clear - looking for your proof that officers who have committed police brutality were prior military.
     
  4. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Hang in there.
     
  5. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Well, FAL has started several other threads, and made responses in others. Still waiting.
     
  6. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Just hang in there.
     
  7. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    So I take that to mean: It's not as easy to find the proof as you thought? (remembering that your assertion was that "many officers who commit police brutality are prior military")

    If it was such a fact, as you have asserted, you should have been able to provide at least one, if not two or three, supporting references by now.
    -----
    On 5 Nov at 1:07am, you made the assertion that some policemen are ex-military; this is not in question, as police departments typically do hire personnel with prior military service.

    On 5 Nov at 7:33am, you made the assertion that "many ex-military who will become civilian police officers will use excessive force."

    On 5 Nov at 2:55pm, I asked for your reference sources for the above statement.

    On 5 Nov at 6:16pm, in response to request for reference sources, you posted a youtube video that doesn't identify officers by name or whether they're prior military or not.

    At 8:48pm, I pointed out that the video didn't identify which officers were prior military.

    At 8:55pm, you told me I could do the research to verify your statement.

    At 1:36am (6 Nov), I pointed out that it was YOU who made the assertion that many of the officers in the video were ex-military; and thus, the burden of proof was on you to provide.

    At 6:08am, you attempted to throw it back to me by saying something about not doing my homework for me.

    At 12:49pm, I pointed out again that the burden of proof was on you.
    *** At this point, in essence within 4 hours of asking you to provide your references for your statement, I was able to post information from different sources indicating that prior military service was not a causal factor for police brutality.

    On 7 Nov at 11:03am, I indicated I was still waiting for your proof; you responded by indicating you're still looking it up.

    As of 8 Nov at 2:15pm, you still haven't posted any proof for your assertion.
    -----

    Your logic at this point is: Many ex-military people join the police force. Police officers commit brutality. Therefore, many police officers who commit brutality are ex-military.

    Classic logic error.

    Post something. Anything. Or offer a statement that perhaps you need to read up on the subject some more.
     
  8. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    For all, an FYI: Military involvement in combat is a minority percentage. Take what Sapper Woody has posted.

    An airman, for example, gets some basic combat skills training in basic training. Then they go to their career field training. There are literally hundreds of career field specialties in the Air Force, ranging from medical, to civil engineering, to computers/networks, to public media, to logistics, to aircraft maintenance, etc., etc. Most of these career fields translate to civilian workforce quite nicely; such as x-ray technician, dental assistant, human resources manager, civil engineering quality assessment, newspaper or other media journalist, database administrator, etc., etc.

    From the time they leave basic training, there is no further combat skills training until identified to deploy. Airmen will receive additional weapons and other training prior to the deployment. At the deployment location, their primary job is to do exactly what they were doing back at "home station"; in some few cases, they will fill other jobs, but are typically not used for combat operations (exceptions being combat controller, force protection, or pararescue related career fields). Deployments are typically six months or less; some few (myself, as an example) are tagged for longer deployments. After they return from deployment, they turn in any deployment-related equipment (especially weapons), and don't touch them again until the next deployment. Instead, they focus on their primary duties again--which, as you'll recall, I stated that they're pretty much doing during their deployment as well.

    There are approximately 41,000 airmen deployed. Out of approximately 325,000 airmen, that's 13%. Many of these are repeat deployments. That means less than 13% of airmen have received additional combat skills training. That means approximately 250,000 airmen have only ever received the combat skills training that they received in basic training, and haven't received such training since.

    Why do I post all this? Because someone who doesn't know anything about what they're talking about has made the statement that military members are brainwashed into killing machines, and pose a future threat to the public. And I don't mean Poncho.

    The statistics and the reality don't meet the assertions.

    If anyone still wants to think anything "FreeAtLast" posts about military is even remotely true, after providing you the facts behind the matter, then all I can say is what I posted earlier in this thread: Opinions are like armpits. You can have two, but just remember that yours may smell worse than others.
     
  9. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Poncho - I understand your concerns. If you have a wild hair and plenty of time, you might do a search for posts from me, especially regarding the Patriot Act.

    We have entered the age of the Panopticon, and just don't realize it.

    However, I do think you tend to go overboard on the subject. Just me being honest about my assessment of your posts.
     
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    We are already seeing a rise in police brutality and as ex military join the ranks it will increase. Also there will come a time when the military will turn on the people.
     
  11. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    And yet, you have no proof of your statements that any of the policemen who are guilty of brutality are prior military.

    My, my, the smell wafting through here....
     
  12. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Yes the smell is because of your denial.
     
  13. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    My "denial" is based on research and available data. Your opinion is based on...oh, that's right. Nothing. It's just your opinion.

    And since this has just gotten nasty, I'm done. I think my point about your baseless opinions has been well and fully made. Somebody else who wishes to moderate this interaction, please feel free to let me know I'm in error.
     
  14. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    You will see what I have said is correct.
     
  15. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    The exact opposite is true. Military service is rare among younger people. Two percent of Millennials are veterans; 13 percent of boomers and 24 percent of older Americans are vets. Some drowning.





    Ok let’s see: Nato troops preparing to fight insurgents in an urban environment (Iraq) actually receive training in their job. Pretty scary. And it is so sinister that they allow a guy like Alex Jones to film it all, including the part where the military hired people to play act as captured insurgents. Gives me the shivers…
     
  16. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    I Hope They Didn't Shoot Him Intentionally, But...

    .....He really shouldn't have placed himself in a position where this could have happened. I personally know that if I'm in a place where there is potential for violence and police intervention, that I had better removed myself, or be responsible for whatever comes my way. :tear:
     
  17. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Not to mention that nobody knows what hit Olson. Can't see it in the video and the protestors were throwing things too.
     
  18. targus

    targus New Member

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    Has everyone else here noticed that freeatlast has failed to deliver on his promise to provide proof of his allegations?

    Kind of like the accusers of Herman Cain. :laugh:

    Promised us proof then just gives us more accusations instead. :laugh:
     
    #58 targus, Nov 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2011
  19. NiteShift

    NiteShift New Member

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    Give him credit man, it takes guts to stay in a fight when you've got nothing :thumbs:
     
  20. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    For every combat arms personnel in the Army, there are 7 support that do not train for combat (source 1). This means that only 14% of the Army trains for combat. Of those who train for combat, (speaking from experience now, not any outside source) only about half actually see combat. But let's not even go into that debate. Let's stick with the 14%.

    Including the National Guard and the Reserves (which the reserves has no combat arms MOS, meaning the % would drop), the Army is roughly at 1.1M soldiers (source 2). This means that only about 154,000 are combat trained.

    In 2006, there were around 800,000 law enforcement officers in the US (source 3). This means that even if all the combat arms personnel in the Army were to join the police force, that would account for only 19.25% of the police force, or 1/5th.

    To believe that those 20% of the police force accounted for even half of the atrocities commited it ludicrous.

    Sources:
    (1) http://en.allexperts.com/q/Military-History-669/combat-ratio.htm
    (2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army
    (3) http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_police_officers_are_employed_in_the_United_states
     
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