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Did the NFL not begin until 1966?

Discussion in 'Sports Forum' started by Andy T., Feb 5, 2009.

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  1. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    I hate to deflate the Steeler fans' excitement with their terrible towelettes, but I would like to remind them that there was a National Football League long before Super Bowl era, which began with the 1966 season. "No one else has 6 - we are the greatest of all-time!" Ummm, in a word, no.

    The NFL has been around in one form or another since 1920. They started playing a championship game in the 1933 season, so that is where we will begin the count. Here is a list of most NFL titles, including the pre-Super Bowl era:

    Green Bay Packers - 9
    Chicago Bears - 7
    NY Giants - 6
    Pittsburgh Steelers - 6
    Dallas Cowboys - 5
    SF 49ers - 5
    Washington Redskins - 5
    Cleveland Browns - 4
    Detroit Lions - 4

    And lastly, I would like to point out that the Steelers' 6 Super Bowl titles have come against some of the weaker opponents in SB history. Only two 9-7 teams have ever made the SB, and the Steelers beat both of them - this year's Cardinals and the '79 LA Rams. The Steelers first SB win was against the decent Minnesota Vikings, but the Vikes always choked in the big game, losing 4 SB's in the 70's. And the Steelers beat the Seahawks a few years ago, but no one really considered them a very tough opponent coming from a weak NFC and an ever weaker division. So the only Steeler SB wins that are truly impressive are the two in the 70's over the Dallas Cowboys, which was a very formidable opponent.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the Steeler organization and respect what they have done. I pulled for them a few years ago and wasn't too disappointed that they won this year, even though I was pulling for the Cardinals. But as we keep hearing the mantra, "No one else has 6!" just keep in mind that the Steelers only have two more NFL titles than the lowly Cleveland Browns and Detroit Lions.
     
    #1 Andy T., Feb 5, 2009
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Not a Steelers fan here by any means, more of an "Anyone but the Steelers" kinda guy.

    But I can't take away the fact that only they have 6 Super Bowl titles. I have not heard them claim that they have more NFL championships that anyone.
     
    #2 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 5, 2009
  3. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    No, but it is implied. No one ever mentions the number of titles pre-1966. Why is 1966 the artificial cutoff? Why not make the cutoff 1981, in which case the 49ers have more than anyone? Or 2001, and the Pats would have the most? Do we make the cutoff 1966, because that's when they adopted the fancy name "Super Bowl?"

    I'm just trying to bring some balance and perspective to the discussion.
     
    #3 Andy T., Feb 5, 2009
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Yes - that is the perfect (not artificial) cut off because originally it was the champion between the AFL and the NFL. Any other date would be arbitrary.

    I don't like it. I wish some other team had the claim, but no other team has 6 Super Bowl wins and I can't begrudge them that claim. It is a simple fact.
     
    #4 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 5, 2009
  5. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    Yes, and I simply stated the fact that the Packers have more NFL titles than anyone.
     
    #5 Andy T., Feb 5, 2009
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    And Steelers fans have never claimed they have the most NFL titles. If they did I would agree with you.

    I can't believe I am defending the Steelers, they and the Cowboys compete for the bottom of my list :)
     
    #6 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 5, 2009
  7. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    Ok, assume my post was for the casual NFL fan, because I bet if you polled the casual fan, they would not realize that other teams have more NFL titles than the Steelers. The Super Bowl is most marketed event in the history of mankind, and it has caused most people to forget or ignore NFL history pre-1966.
     
    #7 Andy T., Feb 5, 2009
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Possible, but the whole game and organisation did change in 1966-69, By 1970 it truly was a whole different league after absorbing the old AFL.
     
    #8 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 5, 2009
  9. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    I thought I only heard Steelers fans saying they've won more Super Bowls than any other franchise, but I don't doubt that there are some uneducated fans out there that don't know any better.
     
    #9 ccrobinson, Feb 5, 2009
  10. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Like it or not, there is an era that does start with Super Bowl I.
    If we accept your premise (which would take logical gymnastics usually reserved for your baseball takes :laugh:), why blame the Steelers? They can't pick their opponents. They have to play who is in front of them. And that usually included the best of their own conference in that year on the way to the Super Bowl. it's not like Arizona was the six seed and the other five seeds were hit by buses, so they got in that way. Each of the six times Pitt made the Super Bowl, they beat the NFC Champs. I don't like the Steelers, but lets not invent reasons to jump on them.

    I've only heard it said that the Steelers have won six Super Bowls, which is true. I, too, don't want to see the NFL forgotten pre-1966. That said, the Super Bowl is considered an advancement of huge proportions, much like the invention of the World Series.
     
    #10 TomVols, Feb 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2009
  11. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    As a long time NY Giant fan you hit one of my pet peeves. However you cheated the Giants out of one championship they have seven not six.

    Here is a list of the teams accolades

    NFL Championships
    7
    1927, 1934, 1938, 1956, 1986, 1990, 2007

    NFL Championship Game Appearances
    18
    1933, 1934, 1935, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1944, 1946, 1956, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1986, 1990, 2000, 2007

    NFC Championships
    4
    1986, 1990, 2000, 2007

    NFC Eastern Division Championships
    7
    1986, 1989, 1990, 1997, 2000, 2005, 2008

    Eastern Division/Conference Championships
    14
    1933, 1934, 1935, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1944, 1946, 1956, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963

    Wild Card Appearances
    7
    1981, 1984, 1985, 1993, 2002, 2006, 2007

    Other Playoff Appearances
    3
    1943, 1950, 1958
     
    #11 Steven2006, Feb 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2009
  12. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    Tom, I don't blame the Steelers for the poor opponents in the SB - they just lucked out. I think that 70's Steelers team might be the greatest NFL dynasty. This current Steelers team is more marked by luck than skill, though. Every call seems to go their way - remember against the Seahawks on that TD and then this year? There is an inordinate amount of Steelers fans here in Ohio (when you consider we have two NFL teams here already), and many of them are bandwagon fans - some of them jumped on in the 70's, kept quiet for a couple decades and now they are louder than ever. That's part of my frustration in all this.
     
    #12 Andy T., Feb 16, 2009
  13. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    Steven, I started my title count with the 1933 season, because I think that is when they started playing a championship game. Prior to '33, the title just went to the best record. If we use your method, the Bears might have a couple more, too.
     
    #13 Andy T., Feb 16, 2009
  14. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    There are may Steeler fans in the Columbus area. I know of scant few in the SW part of the state. I've never understood that, save for the fact that Columbus likes to make its own mark, so to speak. And Ohio State is the third pro team in the state :)

    Or you could ask what teams you're referring to since Ohio has the Browns and Bengals :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #14 TomVols, Feb 16, 2009
  15. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Actually, the name "Super Bowl" was originally a joke from Lamar Hunt, AFL co-founder and owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, the about what to call the then yet future championship game between the NFL and AFL ~1966. Then NFL Comissioer Pete Rozelle wanted to call the game "The Big One", as there was no consensus from anyone, at that time.) The idea came to Mr. Hunt after he watched his daughter play with a "Super Ball."

    The official name was the "AFL-NFL World Championship Game" and the title of "Super Bowl" was not actually adopted by the NFL and then AFL until 1969.

    Ed
     
    #15 EdSutton, Feb 18, 2009
  16. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    The AFL-NFL merger is what really makes the the distiction meaningful.

    You could make the point that a pre merger NFL championship was about as good as a mere super bowl appearance today.

    In fact with expansion the odds of a team winning the super bowl keep going down making the Steelers that much more impressive.

    It is the same with Baseball and the WS but I don't think it is the same with the NBA since they did not fully absorb the ABA. The NBA really just had a large expansion of four teams.

    If you could the NFL championships along with super bowls, which is not neccecarily wrong, you should also count AFL championships as well I would say.
     
    #16 Dale-c, Mar 2, 2009
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