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Did the U.S. Entrance Into World War II Finally End the Great Depression?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Actually, we raised more debt rebuilding Germany and Japan post war. We had a massive tax base during the war since everyone had a job.
     
  2. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    President John Kennedy believed the tax system developed during WWII was developed to "restrain growth".


    It was very successful.


    Obama seeks to shrink the tax base, using the same failed policies of FDR.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Aside from the indisputable fact that socialism is unconstitutional, we cannot tax our way to financial success. This also indisputable fact is proven by the fact that when libs want to discourage certain behaviors like smoking, gasoline usage etc the method of choice is always to tax it to discourage the use. So now we see that taxes hinder the market not help it.

    These are the facts and you can do nothing about it.
     
  4. windcatcher

    windcatcher New Member

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    What greatly helped during the years of the depression and leading to WWII is no longer present with us today:

    We've always had immigration.... which is neither all good nor all bad, but the current influx of recent generations and immigration has put a strain upon the continuity of our traditions, which include conservative economics, commonalities of faith and morality.... in the community as well as the home, personal independance and acceptance of responsibility within that traditional framework, and a strong sense of pride and unity in ones community, state, and country.

    We no longer have the industry to support war: Most everything which is used at home or shipped to arm our soldiers overseas is produced elsewhere.... that is in other countries. No country has anything until it is in touch with its natural resources.... and the industry which makes it of useful benefit to others in trade. One of the major industries which we had ample supply of to and including the WWII years is that of agriculture. Even when farmers could not buy the fuel or tires for their tractors, with mules and horses, the old family farms were working. They fed the nation through the depression. We fed the world from the abundance of our bounty....in large part due to the family farm.

    You wont find much of that happening now! Why? One reason is Estate taxes......you know.... that tax that the government charges the beneficiaries of wealth which must be distributed to 'the poor' has cause many breakups of family farms. When land is more valuable for strip malls, industry and residential growth than it is for feeding people, then the values get skewed. However, in the working of family farms..... most everything which would count as profit went back into the cost of caring for the land and the constant maintanance of equipment: Few, if any, farmers ever saw the equivalent of minimum wages for their labors, yet they must compete with the same economy as everyone else.

    Bring on the corporate farm..... you know..... those hughmongous tracts of land, often fenced in and posted with fields going on forever. They are either owned and run by big business, or a few are run by farmers who learned how to work the political system with the dept of agri and subsidies to rent lands and farm tracts here and there under contract to make a living. One thing about it: When a corporation is in charge of the food basket, and the running of farms ....it is all about the bottom line: Corporations and big business exist for one main thing...... it is not about ethics; it is not about morality; it is not about charity or community involvement and support; it is all about money and the profit made for its investors.

    So, we import most of our produce from corporate farms within our country (California, soFlorida, mid West) and from Mexico through POE like Nogales, or Loredo.

    EPA regulationa and USDA regulations further impose restrictions and tremendous fines for the poor independant and small time farmer, while impressing all of the people who believe in BIG GOVERNMENT and who refuse to know or find out different...that they are being protected from polutants, or that food is safely grown and as nourishing as ever. The big corps have their lawyers already in place to follow the laws and regulations.... and to fight the expensive battles if government forces a contest. But the individual and small time farmer, cannot with stand charges however right or wrongly charged. But it is the small farmer...who, if he has a garden, or 'truck farm' ....he will not let a neighbor go hungry because they lack money or food stamps: During the depression years, it was the small farmers who fed the hungry strangers passing through their community, from house to house.... or gave shelters in barns to homelless families. The moral fiber of our nation has changed since that time: We've always had crime.... but during the depression, a person, though a stranger, was not as likely to bite the hand that fed him or gave him shelter, or resent one who had a 'little more' by wanting to take it all. Our country no longer has the moral fiber which makes such 1:1 benevolence a gesture given easily without considering the risk.

    We have more people in prison than any other nation: What does this say about our morality? We have more people that have been to prison than any other nation: Why? Either the morality of our people is less....... or we have allowed laws to be made and enforced which were unjust: May I suggest that both faults exist along with the fact that state education is now teaching our children and raising them in the morals and values of the state... and to question what is taught in the home and church. No wonder things like abstinance education isn't working. How can it when the state is teaching that anything short of conjugation (i.e. what once was counted as heavy petting or foreplay) is acceptible s@xual behavior? No wonder we have corporate heads requesting entitlement monies in the form of bailouts, and CEO's of bailout institutions aren't held legally accountable for their fiascos in setting policy: the school system prosecutes or reprimands the teacher for punishing a cheater, or for giving a student a failing grade... because it affects their esteem.

    As long as Christians keep playing politics from their selected pages of The Book, in stead of devouring and coming alive with the whole Book.... we'll never have enough clout to return our nation to the roots upon which it was founded.
     
    #24 windcatcher, Jan 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2009
  5. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    How is he shrinking the tax base by putting people to work? That increases the tax base.
     
  6. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    True, but we are not trying to tax our way to financial success, just kick start the economy then Government will have to graciously get out of the way. I know it's outside your belief's but he has the majority of economist saying his plan is necessary considering the state of the economy and how fast it is going down. If we don't do something to reverse the trend we'll be in double digit unemployment later this year. That would be a huge disaster.
     
  7. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    Your thinking is very flawed on this subject. War is the legitimate domain of government. The expenditures were for the making of war. They were not for the making of planes, tanks, ships, etc. for people to use in their daily commerce. In fact, the government stopped the production of many such goods so that industry could focus on the business of war production. Whatever was spent for war was not spent for things outside of war. Many things had to wait until the war was over. Therefore, this was not proof that massive government spending is good for the economy or that socialism is a good thing. The economy grew after the war when people went to work building the things they had had to put off
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You are wasting your time. The libs on this site have do not actually know socialism will help or all this spending they are searching the internet and researching past actions and out of context scripture in a futile attempt to prove it. I have already debunked the whole theory by way of the example of how libs use taxes to squelch behaviors by taxing them. This is clear evidence that taxes hinder the economy and is not the answer for the exaggerated current economic situation.
     
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Some conservatives have become so discombobulated, LeBuick, that they are posting nonsensically these days.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Not at all and I think you would agree with me if you would stop for a minute and think this through.

    The money was spent by the government and goods were produced - regardless of their intended use.
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You have never successfully debunked anyone else's argument the whole time you have been posting in this forum.
     
  12. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    War goods were produced at the expense of non-war goods. The result was that people did without the things they wanted and needed so they provide the things needed to fight the war. People stopped making consumer goods and started making war goods. Factories re-tooled to make the war goods but stopped producing the non-war goods. The War Production Board set the requirements. Female workers replaced male workers gone off to war. The government didn't grow the economy by fighting a war - it merely shifted the focus of industry to what was need to win the war. It was a legitimate application of government powers. Think it out!
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Government spending produced way more goods than the private economy alone would have. Industrial production doubled during World War II.

    I have enjoyed the discussion. Due to a new work schedule I won't be on the BB normally from Mondays thru Thursdays. We are going to 9 hour days for four days and then a 4 hour day on Fridays(not counting overtime, of course). So I'll have an hour less Monday thru Thursday and I'm not taking it out of my sleep time. So the Lord willing I get back to the BB later this week. :)
     
    #33 KenH, Jan 11, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2009
  14. ray Marshall

    ray Marshall New Member

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    Just tell me how Japan was raised up so quickly when they were blown to smitherines in the two cities that was bombed. Someone invested a lot of money and it wasn't Japan.
    Wars are profitable to someone!!
     
  15. ray Marshall

    ray Marshall New Member

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    Well. he was a new deal of sorts!!
     
  16. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I know how patient you are, but you're wasting your time.:BangHead:

    KenH is hiding from reality.

    He's getting more irrational almost daily.
     
  17. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    Remember that Tokyo was already bombed out by the time the "A" bomb was developed. Most of Japan's outward islands had been subdued. Nagasaki and Hiroshima had become the last two cities that had any manufacturing capabilities. Nuking those two cities completely obliterated her war machine. If left alone after the war Japan would have been in as bad or worse shape than Germany after WWI.

    I believe the allies learned a valuable lesson in the aftermath of "The Great War". You do not leave your enemy's wounds to fester, you nurse them back to health. Hoping that they never forget your kindness. Japan was one of our ardent supporters after 9/11. Can't say as much for Germany though. :(
     
  18. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    As I have had time to think more about this post of Ken's, it seems to me that Ken's premise is that we owe our blessings to the almighty graces of the Federal Government. Truth be told, we are facing this down turn because of government over regulation and that in all areas of our economy we have left out the blessings of God.
    1. The automobile companies have used s*x and envy to push and sell their wares even in gay publications.
    2. The credit and mortgage industry have used usury to entrap and milk the populace out of their hard earned money.
    3. Our school system has failed to teach responsible use of credit.
    4. And we ourselves have failed to be the stewards of what God has blessed us with.


    All our blessings come from God, not the Federal Government and as long as we look to God for those blessings we will be blessed from the bountiful blessings of His infinite treasure, for the lucre of the Federal Reserve is finite.

    Remember the child that only had fish and bread enough for his lunch? Jesus took that lunch and fed the multitude of 5000 men. Everyone left with a full belly. Jesus did not feed them with a crumb, He fed them with a hardy meal and more was gathered than was given. Do you think that, as Congress prints more money, it will not become less valuable than it is today? If this trend continues (and there is no site of it coming to a halt any time soon) we will not be able to buy one loaf of bread under $20.00.

    As for Jim1999's post regarding Great Briton's delayed blessing after the war, I think that it was a direct result of the British Naval blockade of European Jews fleeing from war torn Europe to rebuild a new Jewish state in Palestine. Sure the British people had a hard road to recovery but God was and is capable to bless even in the hardest of times. Remember the widow that had nothing but a little meal when the Prophet asked her for some food? She fed him anyway and was sustained as the meal did not run out.

    God blessed us for having intervened on behalf of the Jews of Europe and for destroying the evil of the Nazi regime in Germany. Then after wards and until this day we have lent support for the founding and protection of the new Jewish state. :godisgood:
     
    #38 Palatka51, Jan 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2009
  19. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    Maybe someone has asked this: If that is the case, then why didn't the New Deal spending get us out of the depression first? It makes you wonder how FDR got reelected in 1940. I can see how he won in '36 - people were giving him another chance, but after 8 years of little or no improvement in the economy from his failed New Deal, we still reelected him? His GOP opponent must have been pretty bad to lose that election in '40.
     
  20. targus

    targus New Member

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    We have had massive public spending on the war in Iraq for years now.

    Why hasn't the massive public spending on that war had the economic effect that you are attributing to WWII?

    By your logic we shouldn't be in a recession at all.
     
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