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Different Gospels?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by UZThD, Jun 2, 2005.

  1. hawg_427

    hawg_427 Member

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    Without going into too much detail. The Gospel that Paul is talking about is NOT the MATT,MARK,LUKE,JOHN that we as Christians think of.
    The GOSPEL Paul is talking about is the Gospel of Grace. Paul also talks about his Gospel. Rom.16:25,26, 1 Cor. 15:1-4 This is "The Gospel" that Paul is talking about. This is the only Gospel we as Christians need to be concerned with. Not to say that the "Gospels" of Matt,Mark,Luke,John are not important but this is THE GOSPEL. I have only been a Christian 3 years now and I see how some people that have been Christians many,many years have their vision clouded. Take God's Word at what it is supposed to mean. The Holy Spirit will explain everything to us. At the very least, we can ask Jesus himself when we meet up with him in the Heavens.
    I know that a certain non-denominational Bible teacher on the TV explains it all so clear. His name is Les Feldick, take two or three years:jesus: and watch his study of the Bible. He goes so in depth it will take about 2 years to go all the way through the Bible.
     
  2. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    There is only One Gospel, there has never been but one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Gospel of Grace. The Apostle Paul states that the Gospel he preached was the same Gospel that was preached to Abraham and was the same Gpspel that Jesus Christ preached.

    Galatians 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    Paul also defines this Gospel as:

    Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    To say that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same Gospel that Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile is heretical.
     
  3. mparkerfd20

    mparkerfd20 Member

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    AMEN! I've never heard anything like IT believes from anyone else before. Are there others that actually believe what he has explained here?
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I believe it is called hyper dispensationalism.
     
  5. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    What's with all the digging up of the dead? Let 'em R.I.P., already!

    What's with the digging up of unclosed threads, these days?? It appears someone is resurrecting some 'apparently long since dead' thread every few days or so, lately.

    Start a new one, for cryin' out loud. The entire Great Tribulation lasts for only 3 1/2 Years. This thread was buried for longer than that!

    I've been on this board for over 3 years, myself and have made >7500 posts. This thread was dead and buried for 6 mos. before I joined, and with the exhumation of this thread, at this late date, the best description of it is "Lo, he stinketh!"

    Ed
     
  6. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

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    Hello UZThD. So many things, I don't know where to start. How about The Body of Christ Church? Christ Jesus gave only Paul the authority to tell us of this Church. This Church is not the same as that Pentecostal Church. We cannot find the gospel of The Body Of Christ, until Christ revealed it to Paul. One gospel while Jesus was on this earth, and One gospel He gives us from heaven. Two different gospels (foundations) laid on the Foundation of Jesus Christ.

    One we know is of the kingdom is at hand Gospel of John the Baptist that he only preached to those of Israel. Jesus did the same, and tells us He only came for His own, and the 12 Apostles never preached this gospel to a Gentile. Proselytes are welcome, but the gospel of the Jew, the gospel of the circumcised of repent, and be baptized for the remission of your sins was never preached at or to a Gentile. We know by searching the scriptures this to be TRUE.

    We can prove there are two gospels of Jesus Christ. But we first must believe Damascus Road Did Happen, and only after that are we told What God Had Hidden. We Must believe Peter, and we Must believe Paul. We Must come to the Knowledge that at Pentecost Peter preached to the men of Israel, "you must repent, and you must be baptized for the remission of your sins". We cannot deny this is the Gospel that Peter preached, and those that believed this received the Holy Ghost. This is a far cry from how the Gentile is justified, and how we received the Holy Spirit.

    Paul tells us in Galatians 1:6-7 of the two (2) gospel's of Jesus Christ, yet not 2 Gospel's. "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
    7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ." What in the world is Paul talking about here? Peter tells us in his second book, third chapter it is very difficult for the Jew to understand Paul, but it is necessary that They Do.

    What is Paul telling us in those two verses above? The "Troublers from the Jerusalem Pentecostal church were perverting the Gospel of Christ which is Into The Grace of Christ. What is the Grace of Christ? Isn't it clearly shown to us in Ephesians 2:7-9,"That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9. Not of works, lest any man should boast". This coming through faith is quite different than those that had to come by faith. Every one of them, from the beginning until sometime after Damascus Road had to do a work. There were no exceptions. Some were chosen to do more works than others, but all that Believed God, did as they were told, and they all did the work of Blood Sacrifice. God started it by shedding an animals blood for Adam and Eve, and Jesus Christ ended it when He willing gave Himself for sacrifice, spilling His Own Blood.

    So we can see today why the churches are dying, for scant few preach the only way is to Come Through His Blood, adding or subtracting nothing. The gospel that Peter preached to Israel, that circumcision gospel was not that of Grace alone through faith, but by faith with a work, to gain Remission of Sins. This is that other gospel.

    So there are two very important things we Now Know, that we were not before told, before Damascus Road. The Body of Christ Church, and justification through faith. In the Book written just to the Hebrews to help them understand, we find in Hebrews 11 how all from the beginning to the finishing work of Jesus Christ were Justified. No one of those listed were justified through faith.

    I'll stop here for there is a lot to digest, if anyone is interested. But most scoff as such an understanding, for most all seem to believe we are of Israel, tied to this earth, and will believe only what Jesus preached to His people while He was on earth, and a token of Paul will be quoted if it will fit into the earhtly gospel. Understanding the gospel that Christ gave to Paul will remove every contridiction you can find.

    Thanks for asking, and hope you have time to read, and response should you so desire. Scripture has so much more to tell of the Heavenly Gospel.
     
  7. pilgrim2009

    pilgrim2009 New Member

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    Les Feldick.


    Yes and Les Feldick off TBN preaches it and defends it.He even goes far to say that you wont find in the Bible where a Jew ever went to heaven.I heard him say it the other day and I almost fell out of my recliner.He says the Jew is a earthly people and Christians a heavenly people and not to debate it.

    I hate to be so blunt but isn`t he preaching a different gospel?

    He says that the doctrines of grace through faith can only be found in Pauls epistles.He says the Old Testament saints were all saved by Law {i.e.works}and animal sacrifices.He says no doctrines of grace found in the Old Testament.


    I have to dis-agree.Jesus Christ was crucified in the mind of God before the foundations of the World.I believe the Old Testament saints looked forward to the Cross for salvation and we look backward to the Cross for salvation.



    Latter part of {Hebrews 4:3} the works were finished before the foundation of the world.

    {1st Peter 1:20} Who verily was forordained before the foundation of the world,but was manifest in these last times for you.


    Les Feldick says you will not find grace through faith in the Old Testament.

    {Genesis 15:6} And he {i.e.Abram} believed in the LORD and he counted it to him for righteousness.

    Is not God`s Righteousness being counted to us grace?

    Brethren this is the same way were are saved today.

    Les would probably say but this is a dispensation before the Law and after the Law they were saved by keeping the Law and animal sacrifices.

    After the Law

    Latter part {Deut 32:15} then he forsook God which made him,and lightly esteemed the ROCK OF HIS SALVATION.

    {1st Cor 10:4} And did all drink THE SAME spiritual drink:for they drank of that spiritual ROCK that followed them:and that ROCK was Christ.

    The animal sacrifices was a picture of what was to come and that was Christ and Him crucified.Whipped,spit upon,cussed,hands and feet nailed to the Cross for us,for you,for me.What a precious Saviour.

    Lets see Les Feldick if the Old Testament saint were saved by keeping the Law and sacrificing animals.


    {Hebrews 10:4}For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins.

    {Hebrews 7:19} For the law made nothing perfect,but the bringing in of a better hope did:by which we draw nigh unto God.

    I believe it is safe to say the Old Testament saints were saved by grace through faith just as New Testament saints and everything done in the Old Testament was but a shadow of things to come.

    Also Les says also the Church was not seen in the Old Testament {i.e.the body of Christ}.A shadow of things to come is a thing you can see but its only a shadow not yet manifested.

    {Col 2:17} Which are a shadow of things to come {i.e.refering to the OT}but the body is of Christ.

    The OT were shadows of things to come and that shadow was the body of Christ {i.e.the Church}

    Praise God.

    I will have to disagree with Les Feldick.

    Also most dispensationalist claim the Kingdom of heaven and Kingdom of God are distinguished Kingdoms as in the Scofield refrence bible.

    SCOFIELD note (SRB 1917) on Mt 6:33: "The kingdom of God is to be distinguished from the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of God ... is chiefly that which is inward and spiritual; while the kingdom of heaven is organic, and is to be manifested in glory on the earth.

    Scofield implies that one does not enter the kingdom of heaven by being born again, this is required only for entering the kingdom of God. See also Scofield note (SRB 1917, 1967) and (I Co 15:24)

    ANSWER: Such a view causes more problems. Jesus said, "Except ye be converted ... ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mt 18:3)Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (Jn 3:3) The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are one and the same.





    God in Jesus bless you all.

    Steven.
     
    #47 pilgrim2009, Jun 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2009
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    As far as I am concerned hyper dispensationalism, which Ituttut preaches, is clearly heretical! To claim there are two Gospels is heretical. To claim there are no Jews in heaven is not only heretical it is stupid. Paul was a Jew and all the other Apostles were Jews {Judas obviously did not make it}.
     
  9. pilgrim2009

    pilgrim2009 New Member

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    Taking a verse here there and over yonder completely out of context to build these doctrines is amazing.God has only one set of people and one gospel and one Kingdom and and grace reigns through Genesis to Revelation as does the final day all men will be Judged.Its called Jesuit Futurism.

    God bless in Jesus.

    Steven.
     
  10. SeekingTruth

    SeekingTruth Member

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    IMHO, to argue there are two Gospels is to imply that there are errors in the first that must be corrected by a different version. This would mean that the Gospel of Christ is imperfect, which would mean that the Lamb of God was not spotless, and that He was not the perfect Son of God. This argument is not only heretical, it is blasphemous.

    Paul preached none other than what Christ preached, which is the same gospel preached to the ancient Jews.:praying:
     
  11. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The Apostle Paul says the Gospel was preached to Abraham {Galatians 3:8}.

    Another very interesting point in that verse: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith Learn something each time you open the Bible. Does that mean the Church was actually prophesied in the Old Testament?
     
  12. pilgrim2009

    pilgrim2009 New Member

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    Yep.I put my scofield bible on the shelf for good and now study the KJV Thomson Chain.



    If the church is fulfilling Israel's promises as contained in the new covenant or anywhere in the Scriptures, then [dispensational] premillennialism is condemned.

    Promise to Israel -

    "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There it shall be said to them, 'You are sons of the living God.' -Hosea 1:10

    Fulfillment in the church -

    What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As He says also in Hosea: "I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, 'You are not My people,' There they shall be called sons of the living God." -Romans :22-26

    Promise to Israel -

    Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth, And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; Then I will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' And they shall say, 'You are my God!'" -Hosea 2:23

    Fulfillment in the church -

    But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. -1 Peter 2:9-10

    Promise to Israel -

    "On that day I will raise up The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, And repair its damages; I will raise up its ruins, And rebuild it as in the days of old; -Amos 9:11

    Fulfillment in the church -

    "Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. "And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 'After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.' "Known to God from eternity are all His works. -Acts 15:14-18

    In the same manner there are many Old Testament passages referring to Israel that are in the New Testament applied directly to the church.


    Spoken to Israel -

    "And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls. -Joel 2:28-32

    Applied to the church -

    When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place..."But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.' -Acts 2:1,16-21

    Spoken to Israel -

    'And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel." -Exodus 19:6
    Applied to the church -

    But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; -1 Peter 2:9

    Spoken to Israel -

    "My tabernacle also shall be with them; indeed I will be their God, and they shall be My people. -Ezekiel 37:27

    Applied to the church -

    And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." -2 Cor 6:16

    Spoken to Israel -

    "Speak to all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say to them: 'You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy. -Lev 19:2

    Applied to the church -

    but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." -1 Peter 1:15-16

    Spoken to Israel -

    "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- -Jer 31:31

    Applied to the church -

    Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. -Luke 22:20

    I think dispensationalist {i.e.less than 200 years old}needs to reform back to what the Bible teaches.

    God bless you.

    In Jesus.
     
  13. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Paul says there is only one gospel, and whoever teaches a different is "Damned to hell" or "Anathema". If Paul's gospel is different from Peter's gospel, Peter is in hell right now.

    I don't believe that.

    Hyper dispensationalism such as this, is damnable heresy according to scripture. Why would someone even toy with it. Paul states very clearly that what He taught is the same thing Peter taught...

    and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
    1Co 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.
    1Co 15:7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.
    1Co 15:8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

    ...1Co 15:11 Whether then it was I or they(Peter and James), so we preach and so you believed.

    Same Gospel. Same preaching.
     
  14. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    This is (yet another) sermon that I did addressing this issue, and how the works that seem to be in Peters gospel, are the same works that are present in Paul's gospel: a post salvation result of a new nature....

    The One and Only Saving Gospel

    I know: shameless self promotion. I just enjoy teaching.
     
  15. pilgrim2009

    pilgrim2009 New Member

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    Ever heard of Les Feldick?


    Wow.You sound just fine to me brother.Preach it-Preach it the only Gospel.

    God bless you brother in Christ.

    Steven.
     
  16. pilgrim2009

    pilgrim2009 New Member

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    Can I download your sermon and burn it to several disc?

    Brother you sound much like Brother David Wilkerson.

    I would really like to get this into the hands of many in my community.

    Steven.
     
  17. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    Sure! You are more than welcome to, brother.

    As far as Les Feldick, I am WELL acquainted with his heretical teachings. Two Christian brother/sisters, who I dearly love, are actually teaching classes from Les Feldick in my church. To give them credit, they do denounce some of his teachings. Anyway...

    I address his "Two Gospel" heresy even more, in this other sermon, called:

    Guard your doctrine: Refuting the Two Gospel heresy
     
  18. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Actually, Les Feldick is a wonderful teacher of the scriptures. I send people who are confused about that gospel to his web-site regularly. Just an excellant teacher.

    The charge that I have heard that he does not teach "repentance" is absurd.

    It is utterly impossible for any one to place their faith...faith alone...in Christ without repenting. The instant you place your faith in Christ you are no longer trusting in whatever else you were trusting.

    Thats repentance...and Les Feldick teaches it.

    As we progress in our christian walk attitudes and behaviors that are sinful and/or unprofitable will be dropping away and replaced with christian virtues and behaviors.

    And Feldick teaches THAT as well.

    And to say that because someone holds to some form of dispensationalism means they are a "heretic" is almost obscene from a christian point of view.
     
  19. Havensdad

    Havensdad New Member

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    He states EXPLICITLY that Gentiles do not have to repent! From his own website (bought halfway down).

    http://www.lesfeldick.org/lesbk30.html

    Repentance is "deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow me". He does NOT teach it. He explicitly denies it.

    I did not say "Any form of dispensationalism". I said "hyperdispensationalism", such as what Feldick teaches. Paul states explicitly that he preaches the same Gospel Peter and the other Apostles preached. He also says if anyone preaches any other gospel, they are anathema. That is a pretty good indication that Les, who teaches there are multiple Gospels, is a heretic.
     
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the Apostle Paul. There is only one Gospel. Anyone who teaches otherwise is teaching heresy.

    Paul writes in Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth: to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.

    Mark begins his record of Jesus Christ with the following statement: The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
     
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