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Discerning "He who Overcometh.." in Revelation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Hark, Mar 6, 2021.

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  1. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    When it starts with "he who overcometh..." and ends with those who have ears, let them hear... the rewards I am seeing here are for those saints that did not repent nor hold fast because they all seem to ascribe to the saints serving the King of kings from all over the world & not living in that city as the firstfruits of the resurrection, but as they that be Christ's at His coming after the great tribulation. So the "he that overcometh" is Jesus as He will finish His work in those left behind & they will be serving Him as the King of kings in raising up the generations coming in His thousand years reign.

    I believe this is the right discernment since the rewards given after he overcomes for the saints are not something for the firstfruits of the resurrection. 5 warnings were given to 5 erring churches while 2 exhortations were given to 2 good churches; and the "he who overcometh" is directed to having Jesus overcoming for those saints that did not repent in those 5 erring churches & did NOT hold fast in those 2 good churches.

    Case in point; for the 1st church, Revelation 2:7 is a reward not given to the firstfruits of the resurrection for they will have no need for the tree of life per Luke 20:34-36

    Revelation 2:11 is the reward for those resurrected as coming out of the great tribulation per Revelation 20:4-6 which is indicative because they may still be subjectable to the first death; physical death, but never the lake of fire. I am not sure why He would bother to refer to the second death at all unless the first death was signifying their resurrected state as being entirely different from the firstfruits who will never die per Luke 20:34-36

    So when I see the following rewards after He overcomes those still not ready, to get them ready to serve Him as priests to the King of kings, in Revelation 2:17 for the 3rd church, Revelation 2:26-29 for the 4th church to serve Him as rulers to the King of kings from certain places all over the world in raising up the coming generations in the millennium reign ,

    Revelation 3:5 is a reward for the 5th church seeing how He will deny them at the rapture event but not afterwards with the reminder that their names will never be wiped out of the Book of Life. thus the necessity for that assurance that He will never deny them from now on.;

    Revelation 3:12 is a reward for the 6th church those that do not hold fast, as those saints will be representing Him & His city New Jerusalem serving as priests in raising up the generations following. That is why they have His name written upon them to represent Him that will never be moved by misrepresenting Him. They will always be true witnesses of Him.

    Revelation 3:21 is the sitting with Him in His throne as one of the kings of the King of kings reigning with Him on earth as a similar but not the same thing for how Christ sits with the Father in Heaven but reigning as God.

    Anyway, God's warning & exhortations to the 7 churches in Revelation applies to all believers to be ready or else. Since Jesus is the same yesterday, today & forever, then His words to be ready for the rapture applies to all to take heed of those warnings & exhortations to be ready or else be left behind for when He has to finish His work in those saints by burning off of that foundation, all things that defile, ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) to make them ready to serve Him as the King of kings on earth., thus "he who overcometh" is Jesus Christ.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how you apply Revelation 2:11; Revelation 3:5 & Revelation 20:5 with your previous quote of 1 John 5:4-5 & Revelation 21:7 from the other thread but I believe it is still not opposing the same response in that other thread as repeated below...

    If you consider how we are saved simply by believing in Him, even in His name per John 1:12-13, so that foundation laid by Jesus Christ is not going anywhere, but the works on that foundation that defiles the temple of God will be removed by Him per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17, thus salvation is not loss to those unrepentant saints & former believers left behind as He will overcome for them even though they will incur a physical death but their spirit is saved per 1 Corinthians 3:15-17

    Jesus is till the Savior of unrepentant saints & former believes left behind for why He overcomes for them in the warnings to the 7 churches in Revelation.
     
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    What, exactly, is an "unrepentant saint" and a "former believer"?
    In His word, God's children are always described as obedient, while the children of the devil are said to be the children of disobedience, Hark.

    Further,
    Repentance comes from a heart that has been changed...
    Romans 6 describes someone whose life is no longer ruled by sin.

    In other words, I know of no such thing as an unrepentant saint.
    But I do know that the Lord Himself speaks of tares sown in His field by His enemy...
    False believers who not only think that they are His sheep, but seem to the "wheat" to be for a time as well;

    Until they fall away for one reason or another under trials and tribulations.
    See Matthew 13, Mark 4 and Luke 8.
     
    #4 Dave G, Mar 10, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  5. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Apply 2 Timothy 2:18-21 as Paul addresses one kind of former believers for why they too are called to depart from iniquity, but do note the call to depart from iniquity to all saved believers, because if they do not depart from iniquity of what is on that foundation, He will judge it severely with physical death per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17. That is the meaning because that is the risk given to the church at Thyatira if they do not repent in being left behind to suffer death per Revelation 2:18-25

    Is that the same thing as saying we can never sin after we have been saved? Then why this is written? 1 John 2:1-2 & 1 John 1:8-10 ?

    Is that the same thing as saying if a professing believer lives in sin or committed sin, then that believer was never saved in the first place?

    1 Corinthians 5:1-13 has a brother having his father's wife & was unrepentant for why Paul had asked the church to excommunicate them to maintain proper fellowship. Paul did not judged the sinning brother as not a saved believer.

    Again.. in regards to the falling away from the faith of 1 Timothy 4:1-2 in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 , that iniquity was already at work in Paul's day per 2 Thessalonians 2:7 for how those that fall away from the faith shall be "damned" 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 ( referring to that vessel unto dishonor in His House as left behind ) unless they repent per Revelation 2:18-25, by returning to the tradition taught of us per 2 Thessalonians 13-15...

    Paul address those that have fallen away & no longer walk after the tradition taught of us & are disorderly that we are to withdraw from them per 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 but yet not to treat them as the enemy but admonish them as brothers still per 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

    So there is no loss of salvation & that is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else. Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8

    Explain the running of the race is by looking to Jesus Christ daily in helping us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race in Hebrews 12:1-2? Is that not what discipleship is all about.. walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son daily as we will be required to lay aside every weight & sin that would hinder our walk with Them in the light in fellowship?

    Explain why Paul says that there is more than the risk of losing the rewards of crowns, but he could even become a castaway himself. if he did not bring his body under subjection in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

    Do feel free to address those scripture that is opposing what it is you are saying, unless clarification is needed from you in how I am reading your post.
     
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