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Featured Dispensationalism

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 13, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    The biggest problem I have with dispensationalism is its ahistorical approach to Biblical exegesis.

    Before the 1830s, did anyone teach a pre-tribulation rapture? There were many in the early church who held to premillenialism, but not a pre-trib rapture.

    What did Jesus himself teach about the tribulation?

    The traditional timetable is that the tribulation happens first and then the rapture. How can we be spiritually prepared for the coming tribulation if we needlessly expect that we're just going to be raptured anyway before anything bad happens?

    Secondly, do dispensationalists honestly believe that unbelieving Jews don't need to receive Christ to be saved, because they belong to a previous dispensation? What Biblical evidence is there for that?
     
    #1 Humble Disciple, Jul 13, 2021
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  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You need to go study dispensationslism before starting a thread on it. Based on your questions you have absolutely no understanding of it.
     
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  3. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    No, that's actually not true. It's because I know a great deal about dispensationalism that I question it. Your refusal or inability to answer my questions demonstrates the ahistorical nature of dispensationalism.
     
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  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    nothing in this post is true
     
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  5. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    It most definitely is true that dispensationalism teaches a pre-tribulation rapture and many dispensationalists today believe that unbelieving Jews don't need to accept the Gospel to be saved.
     
    #5 Humble Disciple, Jul 13, 2021
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  6. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    Go back to school young lad.
     
  7. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Your refusal or inability to answer my questions demonstrates the ahistorical nature of dispensationalism.

    It most definitely is true that dispensationalism teaches a pre-tribulation rapture and that many dispensationalists today believe that unbelieving Jews don't need to accept the Gospel to be saved.
     
    #7 Humble Disciple, Jul 13, 2021
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  8. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    To the OP, your method has been repeated thousands of times on the BB.

    Hence, you don't deserve responses.

    You have no desire to learn.
     
  9. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Please proceed with the evidence that a pre-trib rapture was taught anywhere in church history before the 1830s. I'm still waiting. I'd be happy to see it and learn.

    There are many dispensationalists today who do believe that Jews can be saved without the Gospel. Also, where does it say anywhere in the New Testament that animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom?

    Like a good Berean, I'm waiting for the evidence for dispensationalism.
     
    #9 Humble Disciple, Jul 13, 2021
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  10. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    People don't need to agree with Reformed theology, but one can't claim that I haven't attempted to provide extensive evidence in favor of it:
    Jesus is the Reason for Calvinism

    My only wish is that dispensationalists would do the same.
     
  11. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    Your problem is with two words in the scriptures. "I will".
     
  12. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Please proceed with the evidence that a pre-trib rapture was taught anywhere in church history before the 1830s.

    Please also proceed with the evidence, from the New Testament, that animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennial kingdom.
     
  13. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    It's kind of sad how American evangelicalism is so wedded to dispensationalism that dispensationalists don't even feel the need to demonstrate its truth.

    [​IMG]

    I would be the first person to admit that a pre-trib rapture is true if it were actually demonstrated. So far, no effort has been made for this, and neither has anyone demonstrated that animal sacrifice will be re-instituted during the millennium.

    It's just a fact that, historically, Baptists were not dispensationalists, because the teachings that we call "dispensationalism" didn't even exist yet.

    It's ahistorical to assume that dispensationalism is the default position.

    Please keep in mind that I am not trolling. I'm just asking for the evidence. At one time, I hated Calvinism, until I was convinced by scripture and the church fathers.
     
    #13 Humble Disciple, Jul 13, 2021
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  14. Southern Fried Baptist

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    I believe in a pretrib rapture. A post trip 1000 year reign. And I also DONT believe non believing Jews are saved. Old Testament Jews who had faith yes, but after the cross you must trust Jesus alone for salvation.
    With that being said, what would my position be called? I want to learn the differences in dispensationalism. I’m having a hard time understanding dispensationalism as opposed to covenant theology. Thx
     
  15. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    I would really appreciate evidence that anyone in church history taught a pre-trib rapture or that animal sacrifice will be reinstated in the millennial kingdom before the 1830s. Like a good Berean, I will go where the evidence leads.
     
  16. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Good question, needs a reply.

    According to the various historical creeds there was a belief in the second coming to raise and judge the "quick and the dead" followed by eternity in heaven or hell. I don't think "the tribulation" was a specific event before that coming. Theology has developed since the Reformation with various interpretations of prophecy.

    Mat. 24, Mark 13 & Luke 21. Jesus' prophecy begins with the destruction, continues with various occurrences which are NOT signs which will take place before "this generation" has passed. Clearly within about 40 years.

    These events also include the tribulation that occurred before the destruction - that the believers were warned to flee the city to escape when they saw the signs.

    Some of these events are extraordinary, including Jesus "coming in the clouds" so that many details of the prophecy are taken as referring to the second coming rather than the destruction. We need to consider the "Partial Preterist" interpretation which sees two comings, one veiled by clouds, for the prophesied destruction in AD 70, and the final coming for resurrection and judgment.

    Mark 13:28 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near—at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

    31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.

    Jesus taught that "the tribulation" would occur before the AD 70 destruction. The would be no specific signs before his final coming. We are in the situation now.
    Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.

    Exactly! The generation that rejected its Messiah had all the warnings, and all the Gospel preaching from John the baptist, Jesus & then the Apostles from Pentecost onwards. And those who rejected both warnings and Gospel suffered the tribulation and Jesus coming in clouds for destruction.

    See how "clouds" are used for invading armies in the prophets.
    Jer 4:13 - Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

    Of special interest is Jesus' quotation of Dan, 7:13 to his accusers, which clearly refers to his ascension.
    I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

    Mar 14:62 - And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Peter preaches Jesus' ascension, Stephen sees the ascended Jesus -
    55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
    The unbelieving, rebellious Jews would "see" Jesus coming in the clouds, fully vindicated.

    I can't answer that, except to note their full support for the the people who control the modern state of Israel in its war of hatred and destruction against the Palestinian people.
     
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  17. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    When was Thomas saved?

    What did Jesus say?
    The Jews require a sign?
    Did Jesus say that I will give them no sign?
    OR, did Jesus say that I will give them no sign But the sign of Jonah?

    Did Thomas believe by Faith alone through Grace?
    OR, did Jesus give Thomas the sign that he required?

    Has Jesus given you or I a sign like he did Thomas?
    OR, have we believed by Faith alone through Grace?

    Did not Jesus make a distinction between Thomas and those that do not require what Thomas required?
     
    #17 xlsdraw, Jul 14, 2021
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  18. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    Oh how the grafted in wild olive branches boast against the broken off natural olive branches that Jesus may yet regraft in.

    I have no place to glory. I did not seek the Lord. He sought me.
    And He shall yet seek the seed of Jacob in the Tribulation/Jacob's Trouble. And regraft in His Inheritance.
    Ezekiel chapters 36 through 48.
    And they shall serve Him faithfully in the Millennium.
     
    #18 xlsdraw, Jul 14, 2021
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  19. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    And I will indeed be raptured out before the Tribulation for one simple reason. I believed by Faith through Grace alone.

    I do not need to see the Two Witnesses testify for 3.5 years. I already believe that will occur.

    I do not need to SEE the Two Witnesses raised from the dead after 3.5 days. Because I already believe that they will.

    I do not need to SEE the Two Witnesses ascend to heaven before men's eyes. Because I already believe that they will.

    I do not need to SEE Jesus returning in Glory because I have already believed He will return and that I will be with Him.

    You SEE the Tribulation is for those that NEED IT.
     
  20. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    And concerning the repeated requests for "evidence" in "the church" history. Boy does "the church" sound familiar. "the church", that married the secular world, by necessity had to hide the Truth, and has always persecuted those that believe.

    Paul made it crystal clear, while he was yet active, that many had gone out, and that if they were legit, that they would surely not have gone out.

    What the Lord promised us was not "the church", a persecutory entity.

    What the Lord promised to send was the Holy Spirit.

    The number one identifier of "the church" and it's fellow Replacement Theology offshoots is their boasting against the natural olive branches.

    Thank God that I know that I'm just a lowly Sinner saved by Grace. I boast in the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
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