1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured DISPENSATIONALISM

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Aug 23, 2021.

?
  1. Yes, I do

    13 vote(s)
    35.1%
  2. NO, I do not

    16 vote(s)
    43.2%
  3. Somewhat

    2 vote(s)
    5.4%
  4. I do not understand this doctrine at all.

    1 vote(s)
    2.7%
  5. Other answer

    5 vote(s)
    13.5%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    16,277
    Likes Received:
    2,141
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wrong:

    3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

    26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

    6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
    7 neither, because they are Abraham`s seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. Ro 9

    29 And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise. Gal 3

    15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
    16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

    10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Hos 1 ..... (just to cite a few)

    I'm very surprised that you seem to have missed this huge 'motif' from the scriptures.

    "'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond
     
  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,881
    Likes Received:
    951
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I use dispensational as well as covenant thinking.

    I see certain areas of agreement with them in the Scriptures.

    I also reject certain areas of “Darby” presentation and covenantal thinking in association with the last days.

    I conclude that it makes very little sense to grasp at the things some might need to validate God’s promises of Scripture. My God is faithful whether I need such validations or not. I do not.

    Therefore, I hold these values.

    The promise of the marriage supper prior to the millennium. Therefore, there will be a catching away of the believers “at the trumpet.” Which I don’t care, it is His to proclaim.

    There is a judgment seat of Christ in which all believers will acknowledge that Christ is recognized as totally responsible for all our “rewards” and will cast them all at His feet.

    There is that understanding in which we shall know as we are known without any hidden agenda or marring of vision, therefore there will be no prophecy, no tongues, no knowledge that is not totally complete in Him. That during the millennium the teaching is without rebuke, is pure, is totally Holy.

    and I could go on,…
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    5,387
    Likes Received:
    982
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Dispensationalism does not effect soteriology. Case in point, John MacArthur, a dispensationalist, was best of friends with RC Sproul, a covenant theologian. How could that be? It's because they both acknowledge justification by faith alone.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    526
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I've been trying to think out what you think I was thinking when you wrote all that against my reply to your question.

    The erroneous implication of your question (below) is that the saints at Corinth became Jews. While Jewish believers were still Jews, the converted Gentiles are never called "Jews" in the NC Scriptures. Your reply affirms the spiritual status, covenant relationship, of all believers as Abraham's seed, children of Israel, people of God, but there is no suggestion that Gentile believers were ever called "Jews."

    Your question -
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    16,277
    Likes Received:
    2,141
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Which is the genuine article, the type or the antitype?

    "'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    16,277
    Likes Received:
    2,141
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Which is the genuine Jew? Which is the genuine circumcision? Which is that which matters, the spirit or the letter?

    28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh:
    29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    526
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your original question implied that as believing Gentiles are no longer Gentiles, but Jews. That, of course, is the reason why, in all his letters, Paul addressed "the Jews in the city."

    We are the true Jews, not those who call themselves "Jews" so we will rename our churches "synagogues" or "Jewish ecclesia." Let's add fuel to the "supercession/replacement" argument! Let confusion reign!

    Certainly believers in the LORD Jesus Christ are the true Israel, the covenant "Holy Nation" one redeemed people of God including Jew & Gentile as one body in Christ, but Scripture uses various names to distinguish believers from unbelievers.

    I refer to my original answer -
    Saints, Christians, Believers in Jesus Christ the Lord, followers of the Way, Disciples, the Church, et al, but apart from assertions like Rom. 2:29 being a Jew is a follower of the OC by circumcision and NOT a NC believer baptised into Christ. Note the triple division in 1 Cor. 10:32.​
     
  8. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    380
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Austin

    back in the day, Dispys actually believed that people in the “different dispensations” were saved “differently” depending upon which dispensation that they lived.

    They actually denied Faith as the sole means of salvation. There was a Faith disp, a Faith and repentance disp, a Faith plus repentance plus works disp. It was very confusing.

    this was especially evidenced in the Scofield Bibles and to a lesser degree the Ryrie although my understanding is that they have been modified. I have not owned either in over 30 yrs and have no idea what actually happened to mine.

    I do not want to start up anything here. So please do not take as an attack.

    without soteriology dispensationalism is nothing more than an eschatological view now days. It was not always true.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    16,277
    Likes Received:
    2,141
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ...my original intent in delving into this 'motif' was to refute the Jew-worshipping of the Dispensationalists.

    2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:
    3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,543
    Likes Received:
    2,740
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There Both firmly held to a Reformed view on Sotierology proper!
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,543
    Likes Received:
    2,740
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Original Scofield taught and held to saved by law under OT, but not taught by Ryrie, MacArthur, or later Scofields!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,543
    Likes Received:
    2,740
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There are spiritual Jews, saved Jews, and we saved Gentiles now in one Body!
     
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,852
    Likes Received:
    260
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are supposing what you want to believe.
    MB
     
  14. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,852
    Likes Received:
    260
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More assumptions
    MB
     
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,852
    Likes Received:
    260
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Gentiles are never called Jews. Being part of the body of Christ does not make us Jews.
    MB
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    5,387
    Likes Received:
    982
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 2:28-29
    For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

    Romans 9:6-8
    But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

    Being descendants of Israel does not make a person Israel or children of the Promise.

    A Jew is one inwardly. A Jew a person who has faith in the promised one, not one who traces his lineage and heritage through Jacob.

    MB, you are stumbling over an important point.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    257
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ephesians 2:11-22 teaches that the True Jews are those who follow Christ. This point is made very strongly in Romans 2:17-29. So, in this sense, Gentiles are called Jews. Other passages also use the term "spiritual Israel" to refer to those who have been "grafted in". The point is that there is no advantage to being a "physical" Jew. There is only one "people of God", and we are all saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    8,526
    Likes Received:
    704
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Your imagined view. Romans 1:16, ". . . salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,543
    Likes Received:
    2,740
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul uses the term spiritual Israel to refer to saved Jews and Gentiles, while saved gentiles are still gentiles!
     
    #79 Yeshua1, Aug 30, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
  20. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,928
    Likes Received:
    380
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Galatians 4:26
    King James Version

    26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...