Featured Division is GOOD!

Ok back to basics it is.

We all know that God is "all knowing". The Judgment seat of Christ in 2Cor 5:10, the Judgment in Romans 2:11-16, the Judgment of Dan 7:9-12 is not a case where "God finally figures something out".

God is .... all knowing.

So circling back to "yes but God is all knowing" does not delete the point of these texts. Thus as Christ demonstrates in Matt 7 the fruit is how the saints will be known (will be seen to be good trees - producing good fruit).

The corporate setting for judgment that you see in Daniel 7 - is not for God's personal benefit. It is not so He can finally take the time to figure something out.

That was the "given" at the start.

Christ is the one in John 15:1-5 and in Matt 7 and in Romans 2:5-16 that tells us that the person is judged based on those fruits in that future judgment.

Your argument is "with the text".

But this is not a case of the lost "Becoming saved" - rather the future judgment is a case of the lost "shown" to be lost and the saved "shown to be saved" - by the rule of Matt 7. By the rule of Romans 2:6-16. By the rule of 2Cor 5:10 - by the Rule of 1John 2:4-9.

By their fruits you shall know them.

in Christ,

Bob

 

The Baptist Confession of Faith shows that the TEN Commandments are the MORAL Law of God - given to all mankind in Eden and written on the heart as part of the New Covenant.

It contrasts this to the civil laws and ceremonial laws that are only applicable to the theocracy of Israel or to a time before the cross.

Interesting - however the unique nature of the moral law is well defined by the BCF in both of its forms and it points distinctively to the Ten Commandments as central to that moral law - written on the heart (and so often railed against).

There is not one single text of scripture saying that rebellion against the Law of God - merely gets you "less toys in heaven".

I think we both know that.

"The wages of sin is death" according to Paul in Romans 6:23. -- not "less toys in heaven".

And John reminds us in 1John 3:4 "sin is transgression of the law".

He also tells us in 1John 2:3-9 that those who claim to know and love Christ and yet who do not keep His Commandments - are in fact lying.

This goes well beyond "get less toys in heaven".

in Christ,

Bob

 

Most all points of interpretation made by Bib are incorrect. I would stick to reading Bob or what Thomas have to say on the matter.

 

Hey Bob.

2Corinthians 5:10 says that the Christian will be judged according to what he has done in his pilgrim days on earth - good or bad.

1Corinthians 3:10-15 says that some Christians will be saved only as by fire. They do not have much of a building we see.

2Timothy 2:20 is speaking of the heavenly house that the Christian will be clothed with (2Cor. 5:1-2). It says that there are some vessels for honour, others to dishonour.

The Christian is the vessel of the heavenly house. The Christian is a "lively stone" (1Pet. 2:5, KJV).

We can see therefore, that there will be ranks, or better rewards for some Christians than others, based on the way they have conducted their pilgrimage on earth.

Also, here is some Iranaeus :

[They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold...and that was on this account the Lord declared, “In My Father’s house are many mansions.” (Joh_14:2)

Against Heresies, Book 5, Chap. XXXVI, 2.​

I agree with Iranaeus, that there is a different place, or reward at least, for those who bear a hundredfold, sixty, or thirty (Mt. 13:23).

 

Hey Biblicist. How familiar are you with dispensationalism? Do you know who Lewis Chafer is?

 

Hey Biblicist, I understand that that sounds pretty unsound to say that there are two gospels. What might immediately come to mind is Paul's statement in Galatians, that there is no other gospel than the gospel of grace (Gal. 1:7).

However, how do we compensate for the fact that the apostles knew nothing of Christ's death and resurrection (Luke 18:31-34), while they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Matt. 10:7; 11:5; Luke 9:6)?

Luke 18 ESV, bold emphasis mine
31 And taking the twelve, he said to them, “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished. 32 For he will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit upon. 33 And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the third day he will rise.” 34 But they understood none of these things. This saying was hidden from them, and they did not grasp what was said.​

I therefore believe that there are at least two gospels: the gospel of the kingdom (Matt. 4:23; 9:35; 24:14; Mark 1:14), and the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24). What Paul is saying in Galatians is that there is no other gospel, than the gospel of the grace of God, to be preached during this present dispensation.

The everlasting covenant of Hebrews 13:20 was not made with Adam.

This everlasting covenant was made with blood. In Hebrews 9 we read, that "where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives" (v. 16-17, NASB). The everlasting covenant was made after Christ died. Seeing as it was when Christ died that the blood sacrifice was made. From the point that the covenant was made onward it is everlasting.

 

Anyways, the reason why I bring dispensationalism up, is because that it teaches that the sermon on the mount was millennial law for Israel.

http://www.bbmhp.org/chafer/kingdom04.html

 

...And Matthew 5:19, that teaches that rank in the kingdom is based on teaching and doing "these commandments" (ESV), could be speaking of commandments that are not placed on the Church.

In the same sermon, we read that Mosaic altar doctrine is to be kept (Mt. 5:23-24). This sermon evidently was preached to a people different from the Church, who is not under the law (Rom. 6:14-15).

 

I scarcely know where to begin in reply to your multitude of falsehoods and misrepresentations.

The John 6 passage taken in its clear context, along with other passages that have been pointed out, clearly exposes your opinion as completely false. No one and no church prior to Calvin believed as you do. Your doctrine is a johnny-come-lately man-made invention by deterministic fatalists. It is a doctrine which not only has no basis in scripture or the first 1500 years of the church, it is a doctrine which totally misrepresents Who God is.

It is a complete and total lie that I hold to justification by works.

 

The first part of your sentence is NOT what OSAS opponents believe. The second part of your sentence is not only false but illogical, as well.

 

And the reason Biblicist is incorrect is because he starts with a false premise of Who God is, a premise based on a deterministic fatalism unknown in scripture or the church for 1500 years.

 

Ok, but you gave no answer to my question...

 

True and Romans 6:23 says that the reward for bad deeds is death -- John calls it the "lake of fire" in Rev 20. And in Romans 6:16-23 we see the contrast between eternal life and death - based on deeds.

So also in Romans 2:6-16 - the contrast between life and death and how that relates to the deeds done in the body is explained in triplicate.

.

In 1Cor 3 it is the teaching that goes through the fire - not the person.

2 Tim 2:20 says nothing at all about vessels of dishonor going to heaven.

Details matter in this case
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2Tim 2

15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

as with Romans 2


3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Nothing at ALL in their about "more or less toys" in heaven. The frivolous Bible that many imagine to be there - simply does not exist.

in Christ,

Bob