DIvorce question...

John, you are incorrect and have fallen prey to the Erasmian view of marriage. Note that the early church taught for 400 years my position. Sorry.

Further, people are supposed to forgive, not have a hard heart, and let love cover a multitude of sins.

The marriage covenant does not end with illicit sex or abandonment. In the same way, the marriage covenant does not BEGIN with sex. Otherwise, every person you have had sex with is your spouse.

I don't get your hypocrasy statement. The Scriptures are clear. The catholic position is just plain evil (like them).

 

The covenant is not ended by divorce...only death ends the covenant.

Divorce and then remarriage makes one an adulterer/bigamist.

Even if you grant the exceptions and allow divorce for adultery/abandonment (which I am not convinced of)...it does NOT follow that remarriage is allowed. That is reading something into the text. Especially when Mark and Luke make clear that remarriage after divorce is adultery.

 

It sounds like we are arguing the "Law".

We can never live up to God's standards and this is just another case of us, as sinners falling short of God's will. This is why I am thankful I am under his Grace and forgiveness and I belong to a loving and forgiving God, not a vengeful and wrathful God.

My wife and I have been married for ten years. She was an unsaved Catholic and I was a backslidden Christian when we married. This is her second marriage and my first.

Two years ago when we started to go to church regularly, I began to wonder about this issue of marrying a divorced woman, knowing Jesus warned against it. My wife was saved as were our two kids, I recommitted to Christ, and we were all Baptized as a family.

Has God forgiven us? Are we still living in sin? Was my wifes previous marriage and divorce forgiven and washed away when she was born again and Baptized?

 

So if we can't live up to what Christ requires...just ignore it?

 

Or maybe he simply believes the Paulinian view

~Lorelei

 

That's where grace came in and the law was done away with. None of us could live up to what Christ required, so he fulfilled the law and then did away with it.

~Lorelei

 

Our Lord never did away with the MORAL obligation of the ten commandments, but fulfilled the absolute righteous standard for it's demand. Christians in the New Testament are still not to commit adultery, lie, steal, bow down before graven images and respect the Sabbath(resting on the Lord's day). All these commandments are carried over into the new covenant.

The Old Testament laws concerning marriage and divorce were strictly for the children of Israel and are not binding on Christians today. Paul has given us guidelines for morality, marriage and divorce in his writings to the churches. For he was a minister TO THE GENTILES and not to Israel. One must realize this as one "rightly divides" the scriptures. Otherwise one winds up applying the Law of Moses on oneself, when one is not under that law of Moses any longer. I HIGHLY recommend the book, "Rightly dividing the truth" by Bro Larkin.His books are timeless and correct.

 

Fulfilled but not done away with.

Moreover, Jesus teaches that divorce is sin. This is not a teaching restricted to the OT.

Are you really saying that divorce is ok, or that God has no regulations for marriage (and divorce)?

 

The Bible says:

The word for "set aside" or "disannulling" is Athetesis which means "abolition, disannulling, put away, rejection."

abolition is defined as "the state of being done away with."

This is not my opinion it is God's Word.

The question isn't about divorce, it's about remarriage. However, divorce is not always necessarily sinful. Jesus said that adultery was a permissable reason for divorce. Paul also said that if a non-saved loved one wanted to depart, a saved person could let them. In that same chapter he said it was not a sin for them to remarry.

Again, this is not my opinion, it is Scripture.

~Lorelei

 

Any "obligation" nullifies grace. A person led by the Spirit will indeed live a moral life, but that is not because they are "obligated" to do so.

~Lorelei

 

have just read the topic on marriage and divorce.
There is no sin, except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which is unforgiveable through the precious blood of Christ. What about the Samaritan woman, who had had 5 husbands, and the last one was not even her husband, yet Jesus forgave her, as she was a chosen vessel unto Him.
I know of several who were married "in the world" and their partners were unfaithful to them, and later became Christians and remarried.
We are not under law but under grace, and the mercy of God in jesus Christ.
Please let me know if anyone agrees. Yours, in Him, Rose

 

I disagree. A person's grace is not contingent upon one's moral obligations (such as the Ten Commandments). However, we're still under those moral obligations in order to live a Godly life (Living a Godly life and being saved are two separate, though related, issues). The bible talks in numerous places about favor and blessing. Favor and blessing are related to our works, even though we are saved.

 

Romans 5:18-21, "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

We wallow in sin. Our very nature as man is sinful. We can't escape sin, even if we try. We are sinners, no matter what we do.

 

Lorelei, we have discussed this before, even your particular case. I have no ill will toward you, but to simply say that he is embracing the "Pauline" way isn't really effective.

I also claim that my position is the Pauline way. The fact that the early church was known for being hyper-strict on this issue, only reiterates my view.

It wasn't until a humanist-catholic, Erasmus, did this notion of an innocent party come into the discussion.

 

We wallow in sin. Our very nature as man is sinful. We can't escape sin, even if we try. We are sinners, no matter what we do. </font>[/QUOTE]What is your point, in reference to the discussion at hand?

Are you saying it doesn't matter?

 

No one said it is unforgiveable.

The question is what does Scripture teach about divorce and remarriage.

Scripture teaches that divorce is sin...does it not?

(Geez, I didn't realize this was a tough concept to grasp.)

 

Except for adultery and abandonment.

 

Matthew includes the exception clause....Mark and Luke do not.

Even if divorce is permitted, it doesn't make it 'not sin'.

But Johnv, I am responding more to the "we're all sinners" responses...the ones that are not addressing the issue of divorce.

 

There is no question that there is sin involved in any divorce; there was sexual immorality or abandonment, or if not the divorce itself is sin-- any one of the 3 break the covenant. Still, you cannot nullify the words of Jesus and Paul as to the 2 exceptions which allow divorce.