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Divorced in Church Roles

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by WorthyIsTheLamb, Oct 18, 2007.

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  1. The Scribe

    The Scribe New Member

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    ;)

    No, Jesus said Moses hardened his heart, and those who seek to put away their wives. Divorce is for fornication/adultery.

    Matthew 19:5-6 (KJV)
    5: And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
    6: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
     
  2. Justlittleoldme

    Justlittleoldme New Member

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    Let me just throw a twist in here.

    Say you are a missionary to say.....Africa or Utah.
    You win a man to the Lord who has more then one wife.
    What do you tell him to do? Would he ever be able to please God in his life? I am not talking about becoming a pastor here but will he ever be able to serve the Lord in any capacity in a church? What advice would you give him?

    After I hear a few of your ideas and opinions I will tell you what my missionary friend to Africa did when he had to deal with this.
     
  3. givengrace

    givengrace New Member

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    My Husband and I lead a DivorceCare Support group at our church.

    It is a part of our Counseling ministry and as far as the different support groups the rule is You have to have lived it and over come it to lead it.

    So yes my husband and I have been divorced before our marriage. In our situation no one would take us seriously if we couldn't speak from our experiences.
     
  4. danthebaptist

    danthebaptist New Member

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    Thanks, Scribe, for quoting the passage I was going to quote.

    Justlittleoldme: I would say that the answer in the case you mention is the same, that he was not free to be her husband because she was put away and therefore he is disqualified from holding church office.

    I am blessed 17: What is your problem? He committed adultry when he left his wife for another. He continued to do the same, when he took wife #3. Upon repenting he came to realize that the only legitimate marriage he had was wife #1. He came back to her and I gladly reunited them under the laws of the state seeing as God already saw them as being married.

    If your husband or wife was unfaithful to you, and then repented and asked forgiveness, are you saying you would *not* forgive them?

    The wife forgave him as did the Lord, and he was NOT committing adultry with his wife (which was the first one and the one he's married to now) Adultry was with the others.

    And to whomever posted the vs. from Leviticus. Seeing as we are not Jewish, the law that applies is not the one Moses gave for the hardness of people's hearts, but what Christ says. No divorce and remarriage unless you are returning to the original spouse. Why, Iamblessed 17, would you see that as being wrong????
     
  5. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    You also caused him AND her to commit adutlery when you married them again.

    Luke 16:18

    Chapter and verse please?

    What you are saying only holds true if neither of them have married anyone else in the meantime.
     
    #205 I Am Blessed 24, Feb 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2008
  6. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Jesus never said Moses hardened his heart.

    Matt 19:8

    He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

    Show me where Jesus said becuase Moses hardened his heart that men could put away their wives???
     
  7. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    he would be disqualified from being a pastor, missionary, evangelist and a deacon. All biblically relevent and NOT my idea or opinion.
     
  8. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    May God richly bless you in all wisdom and prudence in serving Him in this capacity.:godisgood:
     
    #208 Salamander, Feb 27, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2008
  9. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    You're beginning to show signs of emotion in this discussion.

    I cannot agree that the man should divorce his 2nd or 3rd wife to go back to the first, but that would be that he still has three wives according to the vow.

    What is truly sad is so little is placed upon the words of the marital vows as to disregard them so freely.
     
  10. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    she'd see it as wrong because the Bible says so......we are specifically told that once a person divorces and marries another they cannot go back and remarry the first person.

    To continue from that thought, because of that fact I believe there comes a time when God forgives those people of their divorce and again takes them from where they are and starts over again. Their past is forgotten and they can move on and serve God from there.
     
  11. givengrace

    givengrace New Member

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    I Thank You very Much. And ask you for Prayers for our group. Not that I want anyone getting a Divorce (I don't) but I know those people are out there both Saved and unsaved and I just want them to come to us (not the world) for help. Thanks Again
     
  12. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    So you say that God goes against His word?

    I fully believe God forgives them if they repent, but that doesn't make it as if the first marriage never happened.

    Divorce is like getting your arm amputated, you may have an artificial arm in its place and use it very well, but the arm God gave you can't be replaced.

    The ideals of men are to forget they made a vow to God in marriage, and a vow to each other.

    In retrospect, these ideals are pitted against God's institutions. They are against God.
     
  13. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    It's easy to sense your Christain character about this, Thank YOU!:godisgood:
     
  14. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    ??confuzled?? what?? How did I say that?

    agreed of course
     
  15. The Scribe

    The Scribe New Member

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    Matthew 19:8
    Jesus mentions Moses. Moses allowed them to put away their wives. Moses hardened his heart.
     
  16. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    RE: Divorced roles in church

    I try to stay out of the "hot button" threads such as these, considering that we all have our opinions, and it's going to be very hard to change each other's mind. The way I see the divorce isssue is this: when we were sinners, we were just that, sinners. If we get married, we don't just take our vows before our families(both husband's and wife's), and the preacher, but God, as well. Now, that being said, if any of us gets divorced while still being a sinner, and get remarried, then we are an adulter(male), or adultress(female), if we left our mate for someone else. If they left and it's not our fault for them leaving, then we are free to remarry. Now, here's where I will differ with a lot on here. If any of us(males), have been divorced/remarried, then we are saved by the Grace of God, this does not disqualify us from the ministry. In Romans chapter 7, Apostle Paul speaks about this. I truly believe he is telling them that they can no longer be married to TWO at the same time, like they did under the OT law. But, we are under the Grace Covenant now. If God saves a man who has been divorced/remarried and then says, " I would have used you to preach My Word, but you did divorce that woman before I forgave you of your sins". If He would do this, this would make His Word contradict itself. When God saves you, He only remembers the one you are married to at that time, period!! This would make you the "husband of one wife". Titus and either 1Timothy or 2Timothy also speaks of this.

    It's apparent the love and forgiveness of God goes way further than the love and forgiveness of mankind. In the end, will see things for what they are, and not see through a glass darkly. May God Bless!!

    Willis
     
  17. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    Whew! You see why I had to ask then, right?
     
  18. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    I suppose compromise can be defined as hardening the heart, so I'll just agree in that sense he did.

    The theme isn't that Moses hardened his heart, but that because men hardened their hearts MOSES permitted them to divorce against the will of God to remain married "until death do they part".

    From the beginning it was not so.
     
  19. danthebaptist

    danthebaptist New Member

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    I fail to see the point. We do NOT follow the Jewish law but the law of Christ. Christ does not permit divorce and remarriage to another. And it says "Moses, because of the hardness of YOUR hears permitted YOU to divorce your wives, BUT from the beginning IT WAS NOT SO.

    Mk. 10:9 "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

    "Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to ANOTHER, she committeth adultery." Mk. 10:11 & 12

    I find it interesting that in Luke 16 vs 15 Christ speaks of trying to justify ourselves before men. I believe that is just what we do with the modernistic view of divorce and remarriage. The church has for sure changed its position from what scripture says in order to "justify" what is already going on in the world and the world that has crept into the church.

    In fact, read several verses below that in vs 18.

    Now, blessed, or whomever it was that thinks the case I gave was wrong for the couple to be married again. Where do you get off with such ideas! His "wife" #3 which was an adulturous relationship, which any marriage other than the first one is if the first partner is living.

    #3 left him when he got saved, or repented from backsliding. She divorced him! SHe didn't want a man who loved the Lord and he realized he had a woman who loved the world who had been faithful to their original marriage vows all her life. She told me B4 I remarried them "You know he has ALWAYS been my husband"

    I think you ought to read I Cor. chapter 7. Theres your vs from scripture that states they should come back together. "And unto the married I command, yet not I, BUT THE LORD, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and IF SHE DEPART, let her remain unmarried, OR BE RECONCILED to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. " vs. 10 & 11 then look at vs. 16. He was brought back to the Lord from the "conversation" of his wife. His legitimate wife, #1.

    Anything else was adultry. Again I would state, Yes, he was forgiven from his adultrous relationship by both God and his wife. Are you saying she should not have forgiven he whom God had? He was no more an adulterer because he and she had been reconciled.

    If #3 would not have divorced him and he would have continued with her, then I would say that is like saying: Yes, I know I am a sinner, I want to be forgiven, but I plan to go on sinning.

    I repeat, the murderer must give up murdering. The thief must steal no more, and the adulterer must not continue in an adulterous relationship. Why is it people will agree to this in everything but the case of adultry? It's like we make that "not a sin" because of the hardness of our own hearts. You see, we are no better than the jews to whom Moses gave into. Moses was no different than these church leaders who have taken a weak stand on divorce and remarriage.

    I'm sorry, but sometimes the truth hurts, but let God be true and all men be liars.
     
  20. Pastor Gem

    Pastor Gem New Member

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    Ministry versus Office

    In this modern world we are so far removed from Biblical practices that many times we have NO understanding of what we are discussing!

    Administrative Offices:
    Bishop
    Deacon

    Ministry Offices:
    Evangelist
    Pastor
    Teacher
    Prophet (Preacher)
    Apostle (Missionary)

    Ministry offices are just that MINISTRIES that are given as a gift of God. If one starts a Bible study in thier own home, grabs a megaphone to go street preach, or sits down with a coworker to evangelize, these ministries grow in ones life with the experience of exercising God's gifts in ones life.

    Administrative offices are a job position with qualifications. Observing the way one is behaving and progessing in their ministry is one of the ways to determine if they qualify for the position.

    Now we come to the question of divorce. This is only applicable in the administrative offices of deacon or bishop of a local congregation. We have to get past the feminazi "modernization" of the gospel. The world that Paul lived in was as perverted as the one we are in today. Regardless of this, he set a high standard for bishops and deacons. In the law of Moses, any man that wanted a position in the work of God's service was forbidden to marry any non virgen. In neither Old nor New Testament does it suggest that a man bieng divorced would have any disqualifying effect or even if he took an additional wife, as long as he remained faithful to the first wife as well (Ex 21:10)
     
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