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Divorsed Deacon (Part 2)

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by n/a, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    ScottEmerson, what about THIS verse?

    Matt. 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" 22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

    Hmmm.... I don't see any disclaimer about not forgiving your spouse if he or she cheats on you...
     
  2. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Diane,

    Good point. But a literal reading of this passage tells us that we must forgive 490 times - but we don't have to forgive if someone wrongs us 491 times. The intent is important.

    It's clear what Jesus means in reference to Moses. He sees marriage as an indissoluble covenant - the point being that we should not look at marriage as something that we can "get out of" if absolutely necessary. The adultery clause has been postulated by many scholars to have been added later. I choose to see it as an example that if one member forsakes the other then there can remain no covenant.
     
  3. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Since 7 is the perfect number, 70 X 7 is quite a statement. I'm not perfect. I've sinned against God more than 490 times and yet He forgives me everytime I repent and ask for that forgiveness. He remembers that sin no more.

    Adultery 491 times is not REPENTING (turning from that sin), but the vast numbers show that we are to have a spirit of forgiveness when someone is really sorry for their sins, even adultery.

    A man or woman who committs adultery sins not against his partner as much as against Christ.

    1 Corinthians 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh." 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
     
  4. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    I suggest we all read the book of Hosea. It's only 14 chapters and speaks volumes on God's forgiveness and love for us even as sinners....
     
  5. MTA

    MTA New Member

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    It seems there are two or three discussions going on here, some of which are part and parcel to other threads. Regardless, it is all good, so I'll throw in my two cents worth.

    I happen to belong in the camp of those that agree that a pastor or deacon that divorces should step down. The scriptures are clear in this regard and although the man may still be qualified in every aspect but this one, he is no longer qualified to serve in the capacity of pastor or deacon. Essentially he is now crippled for the work as pastor or deacon and try as hard as he might, his handicap will hamper the cause, if not in his capacity for leadership and counsel, then in the credibility he maintains with his congregation.

    Now having said that, I have a question for everyone regarding the divorce issue in general. I want to know how your churches treat adultrous church members, those who have been divorced for reasons other than fornication or adultry and are now remarried? Unless you reconcile that God does allow divorce (notice I did not say that He approves of divorce) how do you allow couples living openly in adultry (by scriptural standards) to be members in good standing in your congregations?
     
  6. PowerndBlood

    PowerndBlood New Member

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    I know this isn't going to go over so well with alot of people but it is still the truth, here goes.

    When flesh joins flesh 2 become 1(1cor 6:16) and that is a marriage in the bible and why Jacob had to work for Sarah 7 more years without getting rid of Leah.(gen 29:25)He was tricked in the dark and didn't know until morning came.

    The fact is that if a anyone was not a virgin when they slept with who they are with now, they would be knocking themselves right out of being a pastor by teaching such things, i know that is not popular but it is bible.(a two edged sword that cuts both ways)

    While we are at it why don't we post and read the verses and see all that they say?

    1Tm:3:2: A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
    1Tm:3:3: Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
    1Tm:3:4: One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
    1Tm:3:5: (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
    1Tm:3:6: Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

    *What about his children?

    Ti:1:6: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

    *that would get some pastors in trouble

    Alot more things than marriage can go wrong if you ask me.


    My point is that nobody ever seems to finish the verses on this subject, just the part they like to believe.

    In God's eyes after a person is born again their past is as far as the east is from the west removed from them and so is any marriages/sex they had, it was all paid for and buried, so why the fuss.The new man in Christ can do as God tells him and not be haunted by his past, if people will just let him.

    Also after salvation there is such a thing as the death of the wife which frees the man to remarry, which would mean that he only has one wife, because their are no wives in heaven, only on earth.

    **M't:22:24: Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

    also,

    **M't:22:28: Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
    **M't:22:29: Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
    **M't:22:30: For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    What if the wife runs away?

    **1Co:7:15: But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not UNDER BONDAGE in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

    What if she is unfaithful?

    **M't:5:32: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, SAVING for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

    God has covered all the bases on this subject, if we let Him.


    If a pastor with a wife that doesn't die, cheat or leave messes up with another woman THEN he would have two wives and forfeit his role, ex. J.Baker and Jimmy Swaggert/swaggard(sp?) fill those scriptures.

    **1Co:6:16: What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

    Somehow people think that if a pastor or anyone else sleeps with another women but didn't put a ring on her hand that she isn't his wife, not in my bible, before or after some ceremony.

    sorry if this sounds rude, that wasn't how i meant it to come off, i am keyboard challenged, ;)

    Blessed be the name of the Lord,
     
  7. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    But we are. Jesus is extraordinarily clear that a man who divorces his wife because of sexual immorality is NOT committing adultery. How can it be more abundantly clear? We must also understand Christ's answer in light of the Pharisee's question. They asked if divorce was okay in any reason. He answers that it is not okay in all of these reasons EXCEPT for one.
     
  8. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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  9. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    The only scriptural grounds for divorce is hardness of heart. It is a sin to have a heart so hard that divorce is the answer. One party at least will have to have that hardness that makes a continuing union impossible.
     
  10. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    How many husbands did the woman at the well have when she met Jesus? She said she had none. She had been married and divorced five times. So the right answer would be zero or five.

    Jesus said her answer was . . .
    ( )right
    ( )wrong

    Oh. He said she spoke the truth.

    Hmmmm. Doesn't Jesus know how to count spouses? Why can't we count the number of spouses the same way Jesus did when we determine who is eligible for being a deacon or a pastor?
     
  11. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    She answered correctly because the man she was living with was not her husband.

    Jesus told her to "go and sin no more".

    He did NOT, however, call her to be a deacon just because she told the truth...
     
  12. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    The woman at the well is the perfect picture of one of the most sinful creatures in the area of adultry, BUT GOD!! Who is rich in mercy! Came to her at her binging place and fulfilled her void and gave her a well sprining unto everlasting life!!

    But He didn't call her to be a deacon, or deaconess. But then she did serve Him with ALL her heart body and soul, and BTW, led many to Jesus Christ! That only makes her the servant our Greek word defines her as, not filling a man's position as a deacon in the household of God.
     
  13. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    AND Jesus said 'the man you're living with now is NOT YOUR HUSBAND'.

    To the woman caught in adultery he said 'GO AND SIN NO MORE!


    [ October 16, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
  14. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    But did she ever sin again? Was she even caught in the act or was she just suspect, Where was the man? He was supposed to be there too.?

    But where on God's earth is this concerning a woman being a deacon? Or a "divorced deacon, Part 2"?
     
  15. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Ralph: The thread got hi-jacked with this post:

    §ue :confused:
     
  16. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    Since "divorce" is translated from the Greek word "apostacion", wouldn't this somehow be apostacy to try to justify "divorced deacons"?
     
  17. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    It would in MY opinion!
     
  18. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph New Member

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    "Apostacized servant" ?
     
  19. freakpastor

    freakpastor New Member

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    I feel guilty sitting here and reading such petty CRAP. But since I've waisted sooooo much time here I might-as-well throw in my two cents.

    As I have studied Paul's writtng to Timothy, I've found the following:

    Paul's word for BISHOP was-episkope.
    Paul's word for DEACON was-diakimanzo.
    Paul's word for PASTOR(to the Ephesians-Eph 4:11)
    was-poimen
    The Greek language is one of the most specific ever created. Therefore, I find no "qualifications" for a poimen in the text to Timothy.
    But there are those who set themselves up as judges in this world saying the Bishop is the modern day Pastor. That's not what the Bible says. Rather it it what the "judges" want it to say.

    However, in the prepositional phrase "of one wife", the word "one" is originally "mia" which carries the meaning of "one" and "first". In light of this I, a divorced man, will not desire the office of deacon or bishop holding to the scripture.

    That does not mean I will not serve my Lord. To date I have, though the leadership of the Holy Spirit, lead 16 people (that I know of) to Christ.

    After spending so much time here--I feel the need to repent and go find another lost soul.

    Don't bother expecting me to respond. I am no longer visiting this sight due to it's pettiness.

    It is almost enough to make you wanna go Pentecostal.

    Ask yourself--What REALLY matters?


    Gone Fishin'
     
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