Do ALL Calvinists believe In Double Predestination?

Who are these Arminians? I have not seen any yet.

 

It's really not different. For monergism to truly exist it must apply equally to reprobation. You can't say God chooses who will be saved but doesn't choose who will be damned...it's a staple of inconsistency.

Also, you stated "God did". Is it really your position that God, before the advent of anything decreed to create men, some of which He would send His Son to die for, present the Gospel to, and save...yet also decreed the majority of this creation He would not send His Son to, present the Gospel to and leave them utterly helpless as you cannot truly repent? How is God active with the "elect"...but then just throws up his hands to the non and state "oh well, I'll leave them to themselves since they did not choose something I never gave them the ability or means to choose"?

 

Supralapsarianism - infralapsarianism -- You don't want to know. It's just terms used for theological thoughts. It's basically man trying to determine God's mind set when He made His eternal decree. The order of things in thought etc. It's a waist of time in my mind. I agree with Dabney in that regard. http://www.pbministries.org/R. L. Dabney/Systematic Theology/chapter18.htm

The Westminster got it right. I believe Calvin is misread by some today. God is still sovereign over everything. That part is correct.

What I believe is important to understand is that the word "predestine" is only used with the elect in scripture. I believe that God "ordains" all things, but "predestine" is used with a more specific meaning in scripture. You will never see the word "predestine" with those who are reprobate in scripture. In my mind "predestine" speaks of God's effectual will (cause), while 'ordain' is used in a much more broad context and allows for both God's effectual will (cause), and His permissive will (allow). Under the title of ordain God providencially governs everything. And all these things were worked out from the foundations of the world. Salvation is an act of God (predestine), while damnation, is an act of justice towards men who by their own will rejected Him (ordained-allowed). This is all within God's eternal decree from the foundations of the world. God remains completely sovereign in all of it. Those who reject Him hold all the responsibility for their guilt.

Turretin (V1. vii. i) makes the following remark:

'Two extremes are to he avoided. First, that of defect, when an otiose permission of sin is ascribed to God. Second, that of excess, when the causality of sin is ascribed to him. Between these extremes, the orthodox hold the mean, who contend that the providence of God extends to sin in such way that he does not involuntarily permit it, as the Pelagians say, nor actively cause it as the Libertines assert, but voluntarily ordains and controls it'.

Dave

 

Those first two lines were what I said, but you said it mcuh better!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

http://www.calvin500.com/john-calvin/quotes-by-calvin/

“God preordained, for his own glory and the display of His attributes of mercy and justice, a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation.”

I think this pretty much settles it.....

 

But that is the inconsistency. If He justly punishes the reprobate He must logically justly award the elect which would demand "merit of their own"

 

No. It's not inconsistent. God mercies some and hardens (passes by,reprobates) the rest.They receive justice. All of the elect are not rewarded for any "merits"! That's rubbish. They receive mercy --not justice.

 

That is not in dispute. The dispute is the concept that God is somehow not actively or directly responsible for the Total Depraved nature of mankind from birth, when as you have stated here, "God did" ... He actively decree the judgement of God upon all mankind to be born in such a condition, if indeed such a condition exists for all mankind from birth. Thus, the concept of God merely "passing over" or "permitting" their condemnation is non-sense....He must have condemned them in Adam from birth by his active decree of judgement for their sin.

The question is, was this judgement necessary? Since Cals (at least most of them) acknowledge the sufficiency of Christ's atoning work for all men's sin, then the answer would be 'no,' it wasn't necessary. Thus, God could have not chosen to condemn all mankind to a state of hopeless condemnation from birth (Total Depravity), but for some reason we cannot know, He didn't (within the Calvinistic system).

 

It's not inconsistant. People are not naturally in any "neutral" state. Without election, all go to hell. God actively chooses to save some. You say that logically it means he choose not to save others. True, but that doesn't mean he choose them for hell as they were already on their way there. Choosing for salvation is to move one from the path of hell to the path of heaven. All the rest are remain on the path of hell.

their lack of ability lies in themselves. What you are asking is why does God choose some and not others. I have no idea. I only know what the Bible teaches and it doesn't tell us that. People sin of their own volition. People are saved because God saves them.

 

But you see JBH, you darn Calvinists have made God into a veritable monster by not allowing everyone to go to heaven.... therefore your Calvinistic Theology is mean spirited. Far better for God to allow all access but they have to do it by a work IE Claiming Christ as their Lord & Savior. Thats the golden key to salvation. Why cant you understand it

 

Keep erecting them strawmen, they are easy to blow down...

 

who were you speaking to?

 

Isn't it apparent? Your posts don't lack substance, some on the otherhand...

 

Oh, I am a BIG believer in predestination, just not in the way my DoG Brethern do. Christ was foreordained to be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth....Rev. 13:8. God foreordained the plain of salvation to save those who would believe. God never chose to "pass over" anyone, as you and others have purported. God chose to save those who would believe, and those who would not(I did not say could not) believe to punish them in torment. But they do this according to their own choosing.

Do YOU believe that hell was made for m the human race?

 

and then of necessity PASSED OVER those who would not. You believe this as much as I do. you just haven't thought it through yet.

Yes, along with the devil and his angels.

I made these brownies for the football team.

Oh, then you did not make them for the cheerleaders?

Yes, for them too. Just becaus I made them for the football team does not mean that I made them ONLY for the football team.

God made hell for the devil and his angels.

That does not mean that he made hell ONLY for the devil and his angels.

The Lake of Fire was most assuredly made for humans- and it is worse!

 

Drive-by post.

One that speeds in, attacks with ambiguity and runs away without facing confrontation.

It is one that hurls unfounded accusations- it claims something without making a case for it.

It is designed to antagonize and insult.

It has no substance- just claims without warrant.

 

I totally agree with you and support you on that. "Strawman." His favorite word. Typically used when he's losing, which is often, or when he can't substantiate his claims, or when he can't and refuses to answer direct arguments that prove him on thin ice theologically, so, like you say in a sense, he tucks tail after a smart aleck response.

Keep thinking brother.

(Note, I didn't call ya son this time) :laugh:

 

Yep:

etc. etc. etc.