1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Do babies go to heaven when they die?

Discussion in 'Youth Forum' started by kallmekrazykatie, May 2, 2005.

  1. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,517
    Likes Received:
    4
    Thanks, Stefan.

    The verse you cited, however, brings up another question.

    Isaiah 7:13-17 is the setting of one of the most amazing (as well as controversial) messianic prophecies, for it is in 7:14 where we read of the prophecy that the Messiah will be born of a virgin (cf. Matthew 1:23).

    That being said, then to whom is "the child" referring in 7:16?

    If it is the Christ child, are we to infer that Jesus had an "age of accountability"?
     
  2. kallmekrazykatie

    kallmekrazykatie New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Q What is the result of sin?
    A Death.

    If babies were inocent, then they wouldn't die.
     
  3. Gershom

    Gershom New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    They (and "we") die because of Adam's sin. Passed down as a curse. Elementary stuff.
     
  4. kallmekrazykatie

    kallmekrazykatie New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    We cannot say that babies go to heaven cause they are unlearned. IF that is the case why do we even bother telling people about Christ? wouldn't it be better to just let them live in ignorance instead of being able to reject Christ?
     
  5. Gershom

    Gershom New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you're saying babies go to Hell?
     
  6. Preacher Boy88

    Preacher Boy88 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you say they go to hell then you are saying that there is a contradiction in the Bible. Let me tell you there are NO contradictions in the Bible. David was comforted in the fact that he would see his son that had died in infancy in heaven one day. It's for sure that David didn't go to Hell.
     
  7. PamelaK

    PamelaK New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,504
    Likes Received:
    0
  8. Ishouldbhappy

    Ishouldbhappy New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen
     
  9. Sularis

    Sularis Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    0
    The verses have been listed already that sin is not passed down - but yet the Bible clearly states that Adam hosed all mankind somehow.

    So let's see if it is automatically born with sin - then that is inherited sin and so violates Scripture.

    So we have to come up with something that hoses all mankind but yet is not sin....

    Hrm....

    I got it!

    Let's call this rumoured thing the sin nature - the old man - the old nature.

    This nature doesnt damn us - but it so corrupts us and so influences us that we will most often choose to sin at the first earliest convenience. Thus damning ourselves. Let's take this model and apply it Jesus - does this damn Jesus? Nope - Because of His divine will He is able to overcome this cursed nature; and thus be the perfect sacrifice for our sins.

    Simply put we arent sinners until we sin - but we're pretty much assured thanx to Adam that we will sin - because we will have this HUGE corrupting influence causing us to desire to do so. However people can resist this influence, but obviously not forever since our will is not strong enough.
     
  10. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,538
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actual babies - can't talk, can't understand language - Of course they do. My God is not that cruel.

    The only issue is of course, where does He draw the line.

    I believe that is different for every person, depending on how God sees their ability to choose right from wrong, and understand His love. So teach children the Gospel as early as they can grasp it.
     
  11. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,538
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Excellent article!!!
     
  12. odd4god

    odd4god New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reading through the postings I must observe what I believe are several misconceptions (widely held among many Christians). Sorry for the long post, but I think each piont is worthy of consideration. (1) MISCONCEPTION ONE: If God sent babies to hell, then He would be unjust. In the Scriptures we note God doing some rather "unjust" things by our standards – for example in 1 Samuel 15:2-3, God commands Saul to destroy the Amalekites – even the infant children. Now we would consider such actions as unjust (what had these infants done to merit so great a death?). The only problem is that God does not operate from public opinion polls (Job 4:17). He operates from his own justice, and everything that God does is just (Deuteronomy 32:4) – even if we do not understand it (and at time agree with it). (2) MISCONCEPTION TWO: Babies are innocent and therefore would not be subject to the punishments of hell. In regard to this, there are two comments. First, if babies were innocent then they would not die (Ezekiel 18:4; Romans 6:23). Second, some would argue that babies can not sin (at least with a consciousness of sin). In response to this, we are all sinners by practice (Romans 3:23) – even infant children (Psalm 58:3) and by nature (Romans 5:12). Both are worthy of judgment. (3) MISCONCEPTION THREE: There is an age of accountability. Nowhere in Scripture is this term found. One has said that children may not be "saved" in the traditional way, but they are "safe in the arms of Jesus." Again, this idea is foreign to the Scriptures. Various texts have been offered as proof text; however one must be careful to not form a teaching first and then find Scripture to support it (that is the way that all heresies are started), but rather one studies the Scriptures first and then draws his beliefs. (4) MISCONCEPTION FOUR: David's comment in 2 Samuel 12:22-23 is most often used as a proof text for this teaching. Again there are problems. One has commented that David found comfort in his child being in heaven. There is NO indication in this text that David was comforted – he was simply resigned to the fact that fasting and prayer was not going to bring him back ("why should I now fast?" he says). Also, the exact meaning of this is very unclear. Was David speaking of heaven? Actually the Old Testament saints did not go directly to heaven, but to Abraham's Bosom (Luke 16:22) – which happened to be in the same locale as "hell" (Luke 16:23). David could have been speaking of such, but he also could have been speaking of the grave or simply death. Samuel uses the same expression for Saul's impending death in 1 Samuel 28:19. IN CONCLUSION, do babies go to heaven? I do not know I they do or do not. But I do know that such a teaching is not clearly taught in the Bible. One would have to start off biased if he was to conclude that the Bible does teach that they do. I also know this – that whatever God does, it is always just – whether we agree with it or not, and that includes sending babies to hell if He so chooses to do so. We need to be careful about telling God what He can or cannot do.
     
  13. Gershom

    Gershom New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    Long post for such a conclusion.
     
  14. Sularis

    Sularis Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    0
    MIS-MISCONCEPTION ONE: No one says God cant send babies to Hell - in fact who know maybe He's like that character in Austin Powers movie who likes his "Baby"-back ribs.

    I just state that God DOES NOT send babies to Hell!

    God has the right, authority, and power to send anyone to Hell at anytime even Christians even you, odd4god, and me. He's God and we're not.

    MIS-MISCONCEPTION TWO: Innocent of sin yes - perfect NO - worthy of heaven nope so thus Hell is kinda only option left - unless you got some kinda wierd purgatory going (aka Abraham's bosom)

    However I believe that God in His mercy looks at our sins - and so if a bundle of drooling joy bites the big one - God goes Hmmmm.... no sin - I guess Ill let the filthy lil blighter in; but he's getting a new body cause I am NOT changing any diapers! ;)

    MIS-MISCONCEPTION THREE: Age of accountability - the word Trinity aint in the Bible either - but that in no way invalidates the truth that that word represents.

    MIS-MISCONCEPTION FOUR: Now you got different heavens for the OT saints? Pulleeze what about tht OT folks before Abraham - did they get to go directly to heaven or did they "soul sleep" until Abraham could go and create his house in which there are many rooms for only OT saints.

    You talk about heresies - whooo boy two different heavens or a purgatory thats a biggie!

    Oh yeah as to yer heathen baby slaughter - God was showing mercy letting em into heaven instead of growing up and rejecting Him, and trying to mess with His plan.
     
  15. odd4god

    odd4god New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sularis,

    Thanks for the input. However, you have not substantiated your beliefs with Scripture. My ideas or yours really do not matter. You state that God does not send babies to hell. The only problem with that is that you cannot prove that from Scripture. Second you state that babies are innocent of sin. Again, I ask what chapter and verse you derive your teaching from. There are none that state such - else Romans 3:23 and Romans 5:12 are in error (the only exception noted in Scripture without sin is Christ). Third, while the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, there is significant evidence that a Trinity does exist. However, there is NOT significant (emphasis on significant) evidence that an age of accountability does exist. If you have such evidence, please provide it from Scripture, along with the age at which one is accountable. Fourth, not two different heavens, but two different ages. Old Testaments saints were not admitted into "heaven" (as we now know it) until after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. This is basic dispensational teaching (another subject altogether). Again, I do not know whether babies go to heaven. I would hope that they would, but you cannot substantially justify the teaching from Scripture - our ONLY authority.
     
  16. Gershom

    Gershom New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

    Here, in God's Word, is significant evidence that an age of accountability exists.
     
  17. Sularis

    Sularis Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok odd4god just for you - I will repost all the Scripture already posted and add on for you - since we all know - what good that will do ;)

    Yer going to have give me a week tho as a teacher is going home this week - which means - YAY - I get to double my workload errr missionsload!
     
  18. odd4god

    odd4god New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gershom,

    Thanks for the comment. While I recognize that this verse speaks of an "age of accountability" for the children of Israel entering Canaan, I believe that it is a misapplication of Scripture to apply it to children entering heaven. I personally do not believe that "the promised land," is necessarily symbolic of heaven (too much sin, too many battles, etc. in Canaan to be heaven).
     
  19. odd4god

    odd4god New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2005
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sularis,

    Thanks for the willingness to go through all that trouble. However, if you are simply going to post the verses that already on the post, there is no need. I do not see where any of these verses definitively identify that babies go to heaven or that there is a verifiable age of accountability.

    I think the real issue is that this topic is so difficult (and personal to many), that most of us want an age of accountability and we want the babies in heaven. None of us wants to face the fact that it may not be true. Again, I am not saying that it is or is not, I am simply saying that most of us base it upon what we want to be true, rather than what is expressed as true in the Scriptures. And yes, I know the Scriptures and arguments that are most often used - I just do not think that they prove the point enough for me to say that the teaching is definitive.

    That being said, I appreciate the debate, and I have expressed my ideas. Now I will leave the discussion to the youth (it is a youth post, but I had to give my viewpoint).
     
  20. Gershom

    Gershom New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    You said Scripture doesn't give evidence of an age of accountability, but the Deuteronomy passage clearly shows that there is. Promised Land/Heaven aside, the verse stands as proof that God recognizes an age when one is held accountable for good and evil.

    Matthew 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise? (but babies go to Hell)

    Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. 16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them. (but babies go to Hell)

    Luke 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. (but babies go to Hell)

    Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (but babies go to Hell)

    C'mon, folks. Put two and two together.
     
Loading...