Do BOTH Cals/Arms Affirm Doctrine Of Election?

Iconoclast · Jun 11, 2011

No.....there were covenant breakers in the OT. They were never elect unto salvation

psalms109:31 · Jun 11, 2011

Spurgeon

Spurgeon said, “I never reconcile friends!” (my bolding and a big Amen.) While we may not understand election, predestination and human responsibility, they are all still biblical doctrines that must be believed.
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We like to argue the "I" guy when it comes to someone disagreeing with our doctrine, but they will not rebuke Paul.

1 Corinthians 9:
Paul’s Use of His Freedom
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

It does not matter if you do not know if you are the elect of God or not, you just come and Jesus WILL IN NO WISE CAST YOU OUT.

Don't make excuses like I might not be the elect, or that I coming makes me save myself, or I need to change my life. You just come to Jesus just as you are a sinner and God through Jesus will change your life.

Men hinder us by things they can't understand, but God word through Jesus reaches right past this evil mind and flesh right to your inner most being telling us to believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved or not and continue to condemnation.

JesusFan · Jun 13, 2011

Skandelon said: ↑

I'm not sure I understand your question, but allow me to try and take one more stab at explaining my view in the most simple way I know how.

1. We believe men are saved (credited as righteous/justified) through their faith in God and His revelation. "Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness." "By grace, through faith."

Both of us would affirm that without God gracing us though, enabling us to place faith in Christ, we cannot do that which is required by God... You see id as resistable, more like God granting back frre will to determine, we see it as God directly enabling us to receive Christ

2. The gospel is the special revelation of God by which He makes appeal to all mankind: "Be reconciled to God." (2 Cor 5)

here... Don't "Classical" Arms believe that ALL have already been reconciled in sense God grants ALL His prevelient grace in order to have a chance to be saved?

3. WHOSOEVER believes that message (a divine revelation from God) will be saved by grace through faith.

Agreed

4. The Jews had been the recipients of God's special revelation for generations, they were known as the elect of God (Rm 10:21). This revelation was made through the prophets and scriptures by which the Jews as a group were offered entrance into covenant with God. But individually the Jew had to fulfill his part of the covenant (i.e. circumcision). So, you have Israel (corporately speaking) being granted the OPPORTUNITY to enter covenant with God, but the JEW (individually speaking) had to meet certain requirements. Israel (corporately speaking) rejected this revelation and was unwilling to follow God in faith (Matt 23:37).

Actually, isreal was "hardened" to their messiah on a Corporate level, as God "spiritually blinded" them as a whole to jesus, but God saved a "faithful remnant" out of their midst....
Isreal fell temp in order to we gentiles grafted in, and God will one day go back to dealing with isreal on a "Corporate" level, in "last days"

5. Enter Christ, the gospel, the apostles, the church..."Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

6. This gospel was sent to the Jews first, but they rejected it (corporately speaking). They were being hardened, or blinded from the gospel truth (John 12:39-41; Acts 28; Mark 4; Matt 13; Rom 11, etc). They were being "cut off" from the means of salvation, the divine revelation of God. They used to be the elect ones who received the special revelation by which they could individually enter into covenant with God, but now they were being cut off from that source. (God did this to ensure the crucifixion and ensure the ingrafting of the Gentiles into the church)

7. So, once the Jews rejected the gospel it was sent to the Gentiles, because "they will listen." (Acts 28:28) They are being "grafted in" and thus granted the opportunity to enter into covenant with God. God is showing mercy to the Gentiles (corporately) by granting them repentance unto life, but just like with the OT covenant, there was a condition for the individual: FAITH. (God's acceptance of the non-Jew was the "mystery" being revealed for the first time in that day. It was God's predetermined plan all along to graft them in, they were foreknown from the beginning. But it was just being made known to the world at this time)

God has though an indivial election placed upon each member in the Body of Christ...

8. Within all this God reserved for himself out of Israel a remnant to carry the gospel message to the rest of the world. He individually chose them for "noble purposes" while leaving the rest in their hardened condition for "common use." (Rm 9). Paul is an example of one of these individuals chosen specifically by God to be a divinely appointed messenger to the nations.

We are ALL though today 'elected" to be Ambassadors for Christ...

In summary: God elected Israel corporately to reveal himself to and through, but the individual Jew was still responsible for his part of the covenant in order to be considered in covenant with God. God elected certain individuals from Israel to carry the message of good news to the rest of the world. God elected the Gentiles to be grafted in and thus receive this divine revelation, by which whosoever (individually) might believe and be saved.

We tend to see the opposite here, as God elects specific persons to become saved, than they enter in Body of Christ..

I don't think I can make it any more clear, but feel free to ask questions if this doesn't answer all your questions.
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Thanks for your reponse, think that the basic issue still comes back to this...

it appears that Arminianism has man as determining their spiritual state/condition, while Cals see it as God being final ultimate source...

Skandelon · Jun 13, 2011

JesusFan,

Bro, I love ya, but you have been here long enough to learn to use the quote feature. Please go back and edit your post to contain my words in quote boxes. They look like this: {quote} {/quote} except replace the "{" with a "[ "

It makes it very difficult to follow and respond when you fail to use these features. They are very easy to learn if you practice using them. If you make those corrections then I will respond. Thank you!

psalms109:31 · Jun 13, 2011

Source

Jesus is the source of our salvation and His word is the source of who is saved or not, and those who believe in Jesus shall be saved. This doesn't take away the source of Salvation which is God and human responsibility.

We are His messenger God's representative on Earth, His ambassador’s.

That those who are His are those who trust in Christ. God did say that He will keep the meek and humble who will trust in the Lord. They are not His because they trusted in the Lord, but because the word say's they will be. To God this is not work no matter how men try to twist the word of truth.

Romans 4:
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.
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I trust in Jesus not declare work that I have not done because it is not work only men try to make it that, so that I can declare the work of God through Jesus.

Do BOTH Cals/Arms Affirm Doctrine Of Election?

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