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Do Catholic Priests ever say read your Bible?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Rachel, Jun 17, 2005.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Well, I guess you are calling God a liar.

    Matthew 16:19, when Jesus gave the power and authority to Peter, "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

    Matthew 18:18, Jesus gave this power to all of the Apostles, "Amen I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven."

    John 20:21-23, "He therefore said to them again, 'Peace be to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you'. When He had said this, He breathed upon them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit; whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained'."

    2Corinthians 5:17-20, "Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. So we are ambassadors for Christ, GOD making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

    2Corinthians 2:10, "Whom you pardon anything, I also pardon. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I have done for your sakes, IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST."
    </font>[/QUOTE]Lets try this post again L4H.
    "You cannot have a personal relationship with Christ as long as sin stands in the way." (See previous verses posted). Now what do these verses (if anything,) have to do with having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Try and stay on topic this time.
    DHK
     
  2. Living4Him

    Living4Him New Member

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    They don't.

    I have a personal relationship with Jesus, my Lord and My Savior.

    I don't believe that you are in a position to sit in judgement as to what my personal relationship with Jesus is.

    Also, using the Bible only philosophy, where does it state to have a personal relationship with Jesus?
     
  3. Living4Him

    Living4Him New Member

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    D28guy,

    Okay, so help me understand. Are you saying that because Constantine ended the emperor's persecution of Christians, that this resulted in the Christians becoming pagan and thus the Catholic Church came into existance?


    Also, what do you mean by inscripturated?
     
  4. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    Violet is correct. [​IMG]
     
  5. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    Context, DHK--He's the directly addressing the apostles, the foundation of the Church, since that is to whom
    He's talking.
    (DOH!! DOH!!...now I'm really wishing there was a Homer Simpson emoticon.)

    I'm not reading anything "more" into Scripture, since the fact that He's talking to the Apostles is right there.

    You're right...He was. [​IMG]

    And yet this same Jesus Christ empowered the apostles to do the same. We have established this in John 20. If Christ had not so empowered the apostles, then I'd agree with you. But since it says that very thing right there in the text, I'm going to have to pass on agreeing with you. Sorry.

    Nope, despite your leaps of illogic, it's still self-explanatory. The apostles are able to declare sins forgiven or retained by the power of God given to them by Christ Who is God. Seems like God can grant that power to whomever He desires. If He wants to forgive sins through the agency of men whom He has chosen, I have no problem with that. Afterall, He is God, and who are we to argue with God??? [​IMG]


    Looks like you're the one avoiding Scriptures you don't like. How very Protestant of you! :D
    This is pretty comical! Do you actually have a straight face when you type this stuff? I mean it's almost hilarious how you can read a verse which plainly says "x" and turn around and write "this verse is not saying "x"! PLEASE stop it, man, you're killing me!
    [​IMG]

    Already have. And looking at the context and the plain meaning, Christ gives His authority to His apostles to carry on His work which includes the forgiveness of sins. No "magisterium" had to tell me that. :cool:
     
  6. Living4Him

    Living4Him New Member

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    DT,

    Is it just me or do you also get the impression that a few people here appear to hold to the notion that Jesus spoke in parable/metaphors/riddles in all of His teachings?

    It is as if "Jesus didn't mean what He said."
     
  7. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    I'm getting that impression as well. It's as if more than few people are quick to exclaim "Parable!...metaphor!...riddle!..." when the plain statements of Christ cause offense to them. In this manner they are able to summarily dismiss any of the plain teachings of Christ with which they happen to disagree. As a result, they've turned their private (or their denomination's) interpretation of the Bible into an idol. How sad.
    :(
     
  8. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Living4Him,

    Constantine didnt wake up one day and call a bunch of people togther and say "OK! Lets get together and creat a religious organisation that will blend together some chrstian truths, some pagan ideas, some ridiculous and idolatrous things it will invent on its own, and we'll call it the Roman Catholic Church!"

    But he made certain decisions, in some part due to a religious experience he claimed to have had, that initially appeared to only be the end of christian persecution...but in time it led to the monstrocity now know as the "Catholic Church".

    Constantines decisions are universally regarded...but christians and secular historians...as being the beginning of the Catholic Church. A slimy blended together mess of *some* christian truth, idolatry, "christianised" Paganism, extreme false teachings, cultlike control mechanisms that are inflicted upon her victims, etc etc etc.


    The only people who would argue would probably be Catholics, since they seem very determined to perpetuation the ridiculous and comical idea that Catholicism goes back to the 1st century, with...incredibly..."Peter is the 1st Pope!" probably being the most hilariously comical.

    When Gods truth was 1st recorded in some way for reference.

    Chisled in stone tablets by God Himself, or recorded in scrolls, manuscripts or letters. Such as the OT ones found in the dead sea scrolls or NT ones sent to a particular fellowship or believers by a particular believer.

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  9. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    What specific "decisions"? are you talking about?

    The first recorded mention of the "catholic" church was by Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch at the very beginning of the 2nd century. (His usage indicating that the term was already in use.) Ignatius was a follower of the Apostle John.

    Actually, the early Christians mentioned that the first Roman Bishop--Linus-- was ordained by Peter and Paul.
     
  10. Living4Him

    Living4Him New Member

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    No, it's not a ridiculous claim. Like I have stated every Catholic Bishop can trace their ordination back to one of the Apostles.

    Here are the list of Popes (265)in all. Imagine that, 32 Popes before Constantine even produced the Edict of Milan.
    St. Peter (32-67)
    St. Linus (67-76)
    St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
    St. Clement I (88-97)
    St. Evaristus (97-105)
    St. Alexander I (105-115)
    St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I
    St. Telesphorus (125-136)
    St. Hyginus (136-140)
    St. Pius I (140-155)
    St. Anicetus (155-166)
    St. Soter (166-175)
    St. Eleutherius (175-189)
    St. Victor I (189-199)
    St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
    St. Callistus I (217-22)
    St. Urban I (222-30)
    St. Pontain (230-35)
    St. Anterus (235-36)
    St. Fabian (236-50)
    St. Cornelius (251-53)
    St. Lucius I (253-54)
    St. Stephen I (254-257)
    St. Sixtus II (257-258)
    St. Dionysius (260-268)
    St. Felix I (269-274)
    St. Eutychian (275-283)
    St. Caius (283-296) -- also called Gaius
    St. Marcellinus (296-304)
    St. Marcellus I (308-309)
    St. Eusebius (309 or 310)
    St. Miltiades (311-14)
    St. Sylvester I (314-35)
    St. Marcus (336)
    St. Julius I (337-52)
    Liberius (352-66)
    St. Damasus I (366-83)
    St. Siricius (384-99)
    St. Anastasius I (399-401)
    St. Innocent I (401-17)
    St. Zosimus (417-18)
    St. Boniface I (418-22)
    St. Celestine I (422-32)
    St. Sixtus III (432-40)
    St. Leo I (the Great) (440-61)
    St. Hilarius (461-68)
    St. Simplicius (468-83)
    St. Felix III (II) (483-92)
    St. Gelasius I (492-96)
    Anastasius II (496-98)
    St. Symmachus (498-514)
    St. Hormisdas (514-23)
    St. John I (523-26)
    St. Felix IV (III) (526-30)
    Boniface II (530-32)
    John II (533-35)
    St. Agapetus I (535-36) -- also called Agapitus I
    St. Silverius (536-37)
    Vigilius (537-55)
    Pelagius I (556-61)
    John III (561-74)
    Benedict I (575-79)
    Pelagius II (579-90)
    St. Gregory I (the Great) (590-604)
    Sabinian (604-606)
    Boniface III (607)
    St. Boniface IV (608-15)
    St. Deusdedit (Adeodatus I) (615-18)
    Boniface V (619-25)
    Honorius I (625-38)
    Severinus (640)
    John IV (640-42)
    Theodore I (642-49)
    St. Martin I (649-55)
    St. Eugene I (655-57)
    St. Vitalian (657-72)
    Adeodatus (II) (672-76)
    Donus (676-78)
    St. Agatho (678-81)
    St. Leo II (682-83)
    St. Benedict II (684-85)
    John V (685-86)
    Conon (686-87)
    St. Sergius I (687-701)
    John VI (701-05)
    John VII (705-07)
    Sisinnius (708)
    Constantine (708-15)
    St. Gregory II (715-31)
    St. Gregory III (731-41)
    St. Zachary (741-52)
    Stephen II (752) -- Omitted from many lists (including the Vatican's) because he died before being consecrated.
    Stephen III (752-57)
    St. Paul I (757-67)
    Stephen IV (767-72)
    Adrian I (772-95)
    St. Leo III (795-816)
    Stephen V (816-17)
    St. Paschal I (817-24)
    Eugene II (824-27)
    Valentine (827)
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    Benedict III (855-58)
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    John VIII (872-82)
    Marinus I (882-84)
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    Stephen VI (885-91)
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    John X (914-28)
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    Stephen VIII (929-31)
    John XI (931-35)
    Leo VII (936-39)
    Stephen IX (939-42)
    Marinus II (942-46)
    Agapetus II (946-55)
    John XII (955-63)
    Leo VIII (963-64)
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    John XIII (965-72)
    Benedict VI (973-74)
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    John XIV (983-84)
    John XV (985-96)
    Gregory V (996-99)
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    John XVII (1003)
    John XVIII (1003-09)
    Sergius IV (1009-12)
    Benedict VIII (1012-24)
    John XIX (1024-32)
    Benedict IX (1032-45)
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    Benedict IX (1045)
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    Victor II (1055-57)
    Stephen X (1057-58)
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    Alexander II (1061-73)
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    Celestine III (1191-98)
    Innocent III (1198-1216)
    Honorius III (1216-27)
    Gregory IX (1227-41)
    Celestine IV (1241)
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    John XXII (1316-34)
    Benedict XII (1334-42)
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    Innocent VI (1352-62)
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    Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
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  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No, it's not a ridiculous claim. Like I have stated every Catholic Bishop can trace their ordination back to one of the Apostles.

    Here are the list of Popes (265)in all. Imagine that, 32 Popes before Constantine even produced the Edict of Milan.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Too bad they all aren't Roman Catholic.
     
  13. Living4Him

    Living4Him New Member

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    Yes, I did that when I was 5.


    But before then, I wanted to marry Jesus.

    I was raised IFB. My mother told me that I would sleep with my little NT Bible from the time I was about 1 yr. old, I didn't want to sleep with a doll or a toy animal.

    By the time I was 2 yrs old, I would walk around the house preaching Hell fire & brimstone and telling everybody that they needed to repent and get right with Jesus.

    So yes, I have loved Jesus all my life. I didn't say the sinners prayer or make a public profession of faith until I was 5. Momma told me until then I only had a head knowledge of Jesus and not a heart knowledge because I haven't asked Him to forgive me of my sins.
     
  14. Living4Him

    Living4Him New Member

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    Of course they can't. And the Catholic Church doesn't teach that anyone can buy their way into Heaven.

    First off, we are saved solely on the basis of God's Grace and Mercy.

    Second, we have to cooperate with the Grace that God has given us. We do that by placing our faith and trust in Jesus.

    Baptism is regenerative because of Jesus' redemptive sacrifice on the Cross.

    And after all these, we are required to love and serve God (which does require doing His Will and living the Christian life as laid out by Jesus)with all of our heart, soul, and mind.
     
  15. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    DoubtingThomas,

    The word "catholic" just means universal. I am not speaking of the term used literally, but the religious organisation now called The Catholic Church and based in Rome.

    Both christian and secular historians credit Constantines sweeping changes as being the beginning of The Catholic Church.

    Then he was lost. He should have been a follower of Jesus Christ like we who are christians. ;)

    Mike
     
  16. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Doubting Thomas,

    1st, I couldnt care less about that. I'm talking about the 1st Pope.

    Secondly, its a source a vigorous debate as to whether Peter even so much as set foot in Rome at any time in His life, let alone being some kind of leader.

    He certainly had no type of "infallibilty" going on in his life in any way shape or form. He was even upbraided to his face by Paul due to his hypocricy. And there doesnt seem to be any sure evidence of Peter having any primacy at all among the 1st century christian community.

    And if he were in such great primacy, why would God thunder forth for the church his great new testament/new covenant doctrinal writings through the Apostle Paul, rather then Peter???

    Peter wrote:

    1 Peter
    2 Peter

    While Paul wrote:

    The "Mountain Peak" epistles of...

    Romans
    1st Corinthians
    2nd Corinthians
    Galatians
    Ephesians
    Phillipians
    Collosians
    1st Timothy
    2nd Timothy
    1st Thessolonians
    2nd Thessolonians, etc.

    Peter...the 1st Pope.

    (eyes rolling)

    Mike
     
  17. D28guy

    D28guy New Member

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    Living4Him,

    You need to study that little period known as the "Dark Ages"

    Your study will lead you to little problems called "Inquisitions".

    Which will bring you to these little problems known as "indulgences".

    Mike
     
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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  19. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    Technically, "catholic" means "of the whole", not necessarily "universal".

    Then you're pretty selective with the historians you cite. Many historians--Christian and otherwise--recognize that the "catholic" church goes all the way back to the apostles.

    Then he was lost. He should have been a follower of Jesus Christ like we who are christians.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Now you're just being ridiculous. Paul told Christians to imitate him as he imitated Christ. That's the sense in which I meant Ignatius was a "follower" of John. Then, I wouldn't expect one who basically subscribes to "lone ranger christianity" to understand that concept.

    Sadly (but not stunned),
    DT
     
  20. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    1st, I couldnt care less about that. I'm talking about the 1st Pope.</font>[/QUOTE]"Pope"..."bishop"....whatever you give the name to the chief overseer of the Church at Rome, early christians documented that the office was traced back to Peter and Paul.

    It's only a "vigorous debate" for historical revisionists. The overwhelming testimony from history was the Peter did spend time in Rome on more than one occasion and was martyred there.

    No argument from me. (Although I would argue that his two epistles at least are infallible)

    Again, no argument from me. (You must keep confusing me for a Roman Catholic)

    Infallibility or supremacy over the apostles, "no". Primacy among the apostles, "yes".
     
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