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Do Catholic Priests ever say read your Bible?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Rachel, Jun 17, 2005.

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  1. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz New Member

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    After speaking about cults at a luncheon series sponsered by a local RCC parish the priest joined me in encouraging the people there to read their Bibles.
     
  2. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    I understand there were some mild Catholics such as Thomas A Kimpis in the past while there scarcely another group of believers outside Roman Catholic and Catholic was alomst the only denomination of Christianity in Europe.

    Now the question is how you see the Catholic practices if you are truly born again in the Lord. How does Holy Spirit inside you teach about the Idol Worship at Catholic churches?

    How does Holy Spirit teach you when you hear the Mass where Priests ask continuously God to forgive the sins, then brings no Gospel that such sins were already forgiven at the Cross? If the Priests anounce that what he asked God for the forgiveness for was already forgiven, then next week he would not have to ask God again for the forgiveness, right?
    If you are truly born again by Holy Spirit, then it means that you believe that all the sins that you committed in the past and will commit in the future were already forgiven, right? Or do you believe that your sins of the past were forgiven but not the future sins were forgiven yet ? In other words, do you believe that Jesus paid the price partially for your sins ?
    Do you know that your past was also the future at the time of Jesus' Crucifixion?

    Yes, Catholic Priests talk about the Cross and crucifixion, but if it doesn't connect the Cross unto your actual life, what is the worth of it?

    I wonder whether you are truly born-again or not, because you never confessed the conflict between the Truth and what Catholic Mass is performing, which Holy Spirit is pointing out very quickly if anyone is truly born again.
     
  3. KellyWhite

    KellyWhite New Member

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    I understand there were some mild Catholics such as Thomas A Kimpis in the past while there scarcely another group of believers outside Roman Catholic and Catholic was alomst the only denomination of Christianity in Europe.

    Now the question is how you see the Catholic practices if you are truly born again in the Lord. How does Holy Spirit inside you teach about the Idol Worship at Catholic churches?

    How does Holy Spirit teach you when you hear the Mass where Priests ask continuously God to forgive the sins, then brings no Gospel that such sins were already forgiven at the Cross? If the Priests anounce that what he asked God for the forgiveness for was already forgiven, then next week he would not have to ask God again for the forgiveness, right?
    If you are truly born again by Holy Spirit, then it means that you believe that all the sins that you committed in the past and will commit in the future were already forgiven, right? Or do you believe that your sins of the past were forgiven but not the future sins were forgiven yet ? In other words, do you believe that Jesus paid the price partially for your sins ?
    Do you know that your past was also the future at the time of Jesus' Crucifixion?

    Yes, Catholic Priests talk about the Cross and crucifixion, but if it doesn't connect the Cross unto your actual life, what is the worth of it?

    I wonder whether you are truly born-again or not, because you never confessed the conflict between the Truth and what Catholic Mass is performing, which Holy Spirit is pointing out very quickly if anyone is truly born again. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]How do you know so much about the Catholic church? Have you ever been Catholic?
     
  4. KellyWhite

    KellyWhite New Member

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    Claudia, I don't know where you were, but I heard it every Saturday and Sunday morning, minimum.

    Do any of you people ever stop to think there are some good priests and some bad priests. In that case, you pick up your Rosary and missal and go to another parish?
     
  5. KellyWhite

    KellyWhite New Member

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    Jesus died for our sins. That doesn't mean that we can sin and sin and sin without consequences. In order to be forgiven for your sins you have to be repentant and do your penance.

    It's really very simple.
     
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Doing penance is unbiblical. Can you find such a concept in the Bible. If so demonstrate it.
     
  7. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Repentance is not unbiblical, as I'm sure you'll agree. The issue then becomes how best we act out that repentance and what effect, if anything, lack of repentance has on salvation.

    Let me put this example to you: if a man comes to faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and is thus saved, and then subsequently enters into an unrepentant homosexual lifestyle would you say that man is still saved? If you say he is not, what is necessary for him to do to become saved again?
     
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I don't really like to deal with such hypothetical situations. First of all I do not believe that a saved man would enter into a homosexual relationship. He has the Holy Spirit dwelling in Him. His life is continually changing from the time he is saved onward.
    Secondly I don't believe one can lose their salvation. I don't believe one can be born again and again and again and again. That is reincarnation, not biblical salvation.

    However, I know the essence of what you are trying to say (I think). So let's use a Biblical example.
    In 1Cor.5, a man fell into sin (fornication or incest) such that he had illicit sex with his father's wife. This was such a serious sin that it wasn't even "heard of among the Gentiles." It was a grave reproach among the Christian community. Paul was appalled that the Corinthian Church was not doing anything about it. BTW, the man that had committed this sin is called a brother. He was a saved man, a member of the church.
    Paul advises the church to take action and discipline him out of the church that the church may be pure. The purpose of the discipline (excommunication) was to bring the erring one to a place of repentance. We find out later in the Second epistle that that goal had been accomplished. Paul writes them and tells them to accept that one back into the church. He had repented of his sin. Repentance simply means a change of heart; literally a change of mind with respect to the things of God. He had acknowledged his sin. He had turned from it, confessed it, put it behind him, and that was that. On that basis he was to be accepted back into the church.
    There is no such thing as penance (10 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Father's), or whatever. Penance is a man-made unbiblical RCC doctrine. On the basis of his repentance he was accepted back into the church.
    DHK
     
  9. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Here I see problems with your faith. Earnestly I want to help you realize them and correct them.

    Redemption and Forgiveness is not the license to sin. Even after being born again one can sin from time to time, but there is a huge difference between Pre-salvation and Post-Salvation, between Pre-Being-Born-Again and Post Being-Born-Again, in the life style. Whenever I make decision for my life, I think about the will of Lord since I was born again.

    Repentance doesn't mean that One should ask God for the forgiveness!
    Repentance means to returning to God and to find out that even that newly discovered sin was included in the forgiveness which was already done at the Cross.
    If you ask God for the forgiveness of the sins, do you get the answer from Him? How does He answer you? Does God send you Jesus once again and then let Him crucified again?

    Have you ever prayed God to forgive your sins until you hear the Answer from God?
    This is very important point. If you believe that your sins were forgiven already, how can you ask God to forgive your sins again? Are you ready to see Jesus is killed again?

    This is the main problem with the people of half-done salvation or almost saved people.

    Please check about this seriously. I know this problem very well because I was like that before!

    You are confused between Repentance and Asking Forgiveness!
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Perhaps you have written an ambiguous statement.
    You just said "Catholics don't believe in the Bible?" What do you mean?
    Any Catholic homily would never refer to the Inquistions, the persecutions of Bible-believers throughout history, the burning of Bibles, etc. The Catholics do their best to cover up history, even revise it.
    DHK
     
  11. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Read Kelly's statement again!!! You are reading what you want to read. His statement makes perfect sense.

    Roman and Anglican catholics believe the Bible as much or more than do you.

    I remember people burning Bibles during the 2nd World War...because they were written in German. I seem to recall Bibles bing burned and locked away by protestants in England because they didn't want the common people reading them...Check out some of the church libraries. They have chains in front of all books so common people can't access them.

    It's not just the old Roman Catholic Church in a given period of history that burned Bibles. Also, protestants have commited their share of murders,,,such as the Salem witch hunts, and the puritan purges in England and Holland, thus forcing the pilgrims to seek freedom in America.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I don't really like to deal with such hypothetical situations. First of all I do not believe that a saved man would enter into a homosexual relationship. He has the Holy Spirit dwelling in Him. His life is continually changing from the time he is saved onward.
    Secondly I don't believe one can lose their salvation. I don't believe one can be born again and again and again and again. That is reincarnation, not biblical salvation.

    However, I know the essence of what you are trying to say (I think). So let's use a Biblical example.
    In 1Cor.5, a man fell into sin (fornication or incest) such that he had illicit sex with his father's wife. This was such a serious sin that it wasn't even "heard of among the Gentiles." It was a grave reproach among the Christian community. Paul was appalled that the Corinthian Church was not doing anything about it. BTW, the man that had committed this sin is called a brother. He was a saved man, a member of the church.
    Paul advises the church to take action and discipline him out of the church that the church may be pure. The purpose of the discipline (excommunication) was to bring the erring one to a place of repentance. We find out later in the Second epistle that that goal had been accomplished. Paul writes them and tells them to accept that one back into the church. He had repented of his sin. Repentance simply means a change of heart; literally a change of mind with respect to the things of God. He had acknowledged his sin. He had turned from it, confessed it, put it behind him, and that was that. On that basis he was to be accepted back into the church.
    DHK
    </font>[/QUOTE]But what if he had died in the meantime without so repenting? Would he be saved or not?
     
  13. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I have to correct this statement, Jim. The reason many parish church Bibles were chained to the lectern in Anglican churches was because they were typically ornate, expensive and accordingly prone to being nicked; quite often they were paid for (usually through the tithe) by the whole parish community, the community would thus have a sense of 'ownership' of that particular Bible and it would sometimes be the only Bible to which they had access if they were poor. The Bible was therefore regarded as precious by the parish and it was the parish (rather than the individual priest) who kept it chained when not in use.

    I can pop into any CofE old parish church within a few miles of where I live and observe this phenomenon today: the big old Bible, with its ornate designs and illuminated manuscripts, is chained to the lectern or pulpit, but the pews are stacked with NIVs, which are two a penny here, so anyone can nick those!
     
  14. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Matt, The cathedrals, which housed libraries, were literally sealed by chain "fences". I was not referring to the lectern Bible. Try the library on display at St. Augustine's Abbey Canterbury, for example.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  15. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    But with what motive, and in what period?
     
  16. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    I met a man who confess that he read Bible over 70 times, but didn't understand about the salvation.

    The important thing is whether one reads Bible with the whole-heartedness and thereby understand the spritual meanings of it. The reason why I often encounter too much gap with many church men is because they didn't have the actual experience of Being Born Again.

    Jesus said:

    Matt 13:14
    And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:


    Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
     
  17. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Matt...Primarily theft. I haven't a clue what other motives might have been behind the chains.

    I think the library I saw was 400 years old, so that would put it around the 1600's. I am going by memory here, so don't chalk anything up. I would have to do some research.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    Jim
     
  18. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Thanks - that's kind of the point I was making; it wasn't that they wanted to stop the laity from reading the Bible, but rather that they wanted to stop Bibles being stolen.
     
  19. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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  20. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for that, Jim; the link doesn't actually explain why the books were chained but the references to illuminated manuscripts would suggest it was to prevent theft.
     
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