Do certain lifestyles keep one from being a Christian

Following your "logic", then this verse must be for 'lost' people only???

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
I John 1:9

What about these verses?

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
I John 1:8

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
I John 1:10

I get tired of people separating sin. There is no such thing as 'little' or 'big' sins except in MAN'S eyes. To God - sin is sin...

Yes, we are to strive to be perfect. Will we ever reach that state on this earth? NOT ME! I sin daily, if it is nothing more than a 'sin of omission' and I KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I AM SAVED!

A big AMEN to you Gene and Billy . I have been backslidden also, but I did not lose my salvation as a result of being in that state. I DID, however, lose the JOY of my salvation (which has now been restored).

My sin was not the same as yours - but it was sin nevertheless and caused a break in fellowship with the Father.

God does not look down on us and say, "Oh my, look at THAT sin!" No, God cannot look on sin. Period. ANY sin...

Self-righteousness and compassion cannot walk hand in hand. I choose to have the compassion of Christ in my life because all of our righteousness "is as filthy rags" to God anyway.

I'm not what I want to be, I'm not what I'm going to be, but thank God I'm not what I was...

§ue

 

Amen to that Sue, Gene, and Billy Mac.

Paul said he practiced sin after he was saved. He did things he did not want to and he did not do things he wanted to do. But he believed Jesus would deliver him from this body of evil (the flesh that he said no good dwells in). We recognise this same struggle in us. It is not that we want to sin in our spirits, but the flesh is weak. We do not want to sin just as Paul did not want to. However, we do sin just like Paul did. And we come to Jesus after we do just like Paul did and John wrote about.

 

I was going to post those verses myself TC. Thanks. Here's one thought... "Sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death" James 1:15

 

True. That is why Paul tell us to do everything we can to mortify the flesh daily - die to self so we can live in the Spirit. Jesus tells us to pray that we are not lead into temptation, but are to ask God to deliver us from evil.

 

Amen BillyMac, and Gene.

The problem with the 'Christians don't practice sin' is none of you can tell me when it becomes 'practice.' I used to play baseball, and we had practice once a week. You figure you sin once a week? I got news for you then, your practicing. Do you think that because you don't sin as much as the publican that your salvation is sure? Then you are looking at the wrong man. You need to be looking to the Son of God who died to pay for your sins. If you don't believe that Jesus paid the price for your sins, you may not be saved.

Christians who are 'practicing sin' will stand before their Lord and they will be judged. They will recieve for the works done in their flesh. They may be severely chastised at the Judgment Seat, but they are saved nonetheless. As long as God has mercy on them and they are still breathing, they can repent and be forgiven and get back in the race for the crown.

Luke 12
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

 

I Am Blessed 16:

Following your "logic", then this verse must be for 'lost' people only???

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
I John 1:9

What about these verses?

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
I John 1:8

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
I John 1:10


Thank you for posting these verses. We should add to that list 1 John 2:2, that Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but for the sins of the whole world.

Now, avoiding the contentions about limited atonement in scope or unlimited atonement in scope, either way you go the idea of 2:2 is that the wrath of God is settled, the atonement is paid for and done with for Christians by Jesus ALONE, not by Jesus plus faith or works, (for even if faith is from us on our own it is a Work...cf. Ephesians 2:8,9...Salvation, even the faith to believe is itself a gift from God, we have NOTHING about which to boast). In other words, there is no forgiveness without an anchor, a sureity, and that sureity is Jesus.

1 John is where we get the idea that one can not "practice sin" and be a true Christian. It is important we do something called proper exegesis. What does John mean by this? Some people talk about "lifestyles of sin." (Well, if we apply this to the homosexual who is single but not at this moment having sex, then that would say that person isn't at this moment practicing sin. In short, if that is what this is talking about, then one would have to practice sin all the time and habitually). The point, though, that freeatlast and others miss is that the sin John is talking about is the sin of apostacy, the falling away from the faith. He is saying that if a person continues to repudiate the gospel and deny Jesus, then one is not a Christian.

The entire letter turns on the repudiation of the Gnostic heresy. This heresy was a rejection of the entire gospel message, specifically that Jesus is God the Son and hat He made a real atonement for our sins and that He bodily rose from the dead. These Gnostics had left the congregation and were claiming in fact that they had no sin.

John says that if they contintue to repudiate Christ, there is no propitiation for them. Why? Because in continuing in their sin of apostacy, they prove they did not know Jesus to start with. Their sins are not covered, they are not paid for by Jesus (no matter which way you go with limited or unlimited atonement, we all agree, their sins aren't ultimately paid for here, because they are going to hell). In other words, these people that say they have no sin, are, in fact, the greatest of sinners, they make God out to be a liar (for Jesus did come, He really did die, and He really did rise bodily from the grave and not spiritually), and they further make God out to be a liar because they make a claim that they don't have any sin in them anyway (one of Gnosticism's key teachings). In doing this, they prove they do not have the truth in them and they are making God out to be liar.

Basically, folks, if you sit there and say to us and, thus to God that you don't practice sin of some sort, you are, in fact, the biggest sinner among us, because you deny the truth. The practice of sin that was going on in the Ephesian church was an outright apotasy, but it's ethical effect was an asceticim, an austere type of separation from the world. It effectively set the Gnostics off and they said, because of their practices, that "they had no sin in them," and so they proved the truth not to be in them and God to be liar. How ironic, then this truth becomes for us today. If you say that you have no sin, that you do not practice sin, you are in fact practicing sin! Your anthropology is way to high and you have likely forgotten that, while some sins, like homosexuality, do have greater consequences than others, you have forgotten the standard for sin and the practice of it is the holiness of God, not the relative comparison between individuals. Anybody that sins "just a little" or "every so often, but not that much" is, in fact practicing sin. It may not be the same sin all time, but the bottom line is that the Bible doesn't say "if you keep on in the same sin, you're not really a Christian," it simply says that if you practice sin you aren't a Christian," and, when we look at what it really means, the sin that is being practiced is apostacy and the effect of the apostacy is the claim that you don't have any sin in you to start with!

What did Billy Mac and I both say? We both were Christians, we knew we were Christians, and the entire time we were in sin, we knew we had sin in us and never denied it. Our hearts were under conviction the whole time. I came to Christ when I was 19, and my life was totally changed. I didnt commit a homosexual act until I was in my 20's. To say I wasn't saved is just, frankly, wrong. I did know the gospel, I had invited Jesus into my heart and life, and He had set about changing my heart, but, I also had serious childhood trauma to deal with, and that worked it's way out eventually, into homosexuality. It took indulging in those sins for me to "bottom out" as with an addiction for me to come to a point where Jesus could teach me humility and to get me to a point where I was ready to let him heal the traumas that formed the homosexual desires that I acted out upon in sexual sin and in drug addiction. It didn't mean I wasn't saved. It meant I had serious issues and I had to acknowledge I had those issues (which meant coming out) and it eventually meant letting go of those issues (which I finally did in a similar way to Billy Mac).

If you sit here and make blanket states that the person that is a homosexual can't really be saved if they continue in sin, you've missed the entire point of the letter of 1 John. If they do, and they really do, in their heart of hearts believe that they are not sinning and that they are not, in fact, sinners of any kind AND they also repudiate the gospel itself (for it takes both to practice the sin of apostacy), then you are correct and they are not Christians at all and they never were. They are not struggling with their sin, for that matter they aren't struggling with any sin at all. To recap: The person must not be struggling with sin at all, have no conviction in their hearts regarding sin (for the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, righteousness, and Jesus Christ), and they must repudiate the truth of the gospel as well. This is the pattern of 1 John with regard to the nature of the apostacy of the men about whom John wrote.

However, YOU AREN'T GOD, and YOU'RE NOT THAT PERSON, so you don't have ANY right to sit in judgment on them. John wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit about these folks, you're not being inspired from the Holy Spirit about the hearts and minds of every individual homosexual. If you think you are, then I'd like to introduce you to liberal Christianity and neo-orthodoxy, because that is a doctrine straight from there.

Here is a short sample of the doctrines of apostacy and backsliding from R.B.C. Howell, a Baptist:

" It is, secondly, necessary that you discriminate carefully, between backsliding, and apostasy. The former is the act of turning back from God; the latter is the forsaking, or the renouncing of the religion of Christ. Backsliding consists either in the relinquishment of evangelical doctrine; or in the loss of spirituality of mind; or in the gradual departure from correct morals. All these evils are embraced in apostasy. The backslider commits transgressions, but returns to his allegiance, and obtains forgiveness, and acceptance. The apostate continues; dies in his sins; and "so eternally perishes." We teach that none of the true children of God--he believing, the pardoned, the regenerated, the sanctified--become apostate, but to backsliding, of every character and degree, all, it is but too evident, even the best, and most devoted, are constantly, and painfully liable. "

Here is an article by an acquaintance of mine, Matt Slick regarding this very subject with regard to homosexuals:

http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_homo.htm

It all boils down to this: If that person that is homosexual is not experiencing any conviction of any sort and they also express a complete lack of desire for the things of God (which are internal and only God and that person can truly know) and this shows in their life (which you can see) and that person in both heart and with voice can repudiate the gospel, the match the pattern given for apostacy as set forth in Scripture with regard to the Gnostics and some of the Judaizers as set forth in the Johnanine epistles and Hebrews. If however, they do not fit this pattern, and they have made a profession of faith, unless you can see their hearts, you should treat them as a backsliders. If they are not saved, God will deal with them in the end. You are not God; you can't see the heart, and you have no right to tell somebody they are not a Christian, unless you can know the things that person knows and God knows. Likewise, you have no right to tell somebody that returns to the Lord that it is sure that they weren't saved until a later point, again, because only God and that person know that. Likewise, if you sit and say, "I do not practice sin," you do in fact practice sin, for that is the very sin you practice, and so you say God is a liar, and you are one of the greatest sinners among us.

[ October 19, 2004, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: GeneMBridges ]

 

Yes in our lost stae, but after conversion that all changes and we should not be sinning daily. We may from time to time sin, but it should not be daily. John writes
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Notice the "IF". We do not need to sin and all our sins are willful choices. Jesus said;
Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Believe the word, not men and false terachers. </font>[/QUOTE]1 John 1:9 tells me christians do sin.
I'm glad you appear to be sin free, the rest of us aren't. And we know it.
Evidently you are telling people if they sin they aren't christians.
Listen to God not false teachings.

 

Gene and BillyMac, I really admire yall for sharing even though you know it might cause you problems.

I, personally do not care if someone thinks that I am not saved. That is just THEIR opinion, and they are entitled to it.

The One that matters to me is Jesus. He knows my heart, thoughts, feelings, etc. He is the One that died for me. Thank You, Jesus!!!!

 

I had no idea that I (and Gene) would receive so much support on these boards. I am utterly moved to tears to know that there are more loving Christians here than there are those who would condemn born-again Christians because of their sins.

It is true that that still small voice calls out for that sheep that went astray. Like LorrieGrace I owe all of my gratitude to the Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you Lord Jesus for these who hold your truths dear in their hearts and cast no condemnation on their brethren.

 

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.


Sin is sin and ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God!

Gene and BillyMac, THANK YOU for sharing so openly! I'm sure there are others who will benefit from what you've shared.

Diane

 

((((BillyMac))))))))

I feel that if a person cannot turn to their family with what is on their mind that something, somewhere is wrong.

And we ARE family. We are brothers and sisters in Christ!! Always remember that because it is very important.

 

Brother all I can say is Praise God that He did not give up on you! Also, Praise God that He did not give up on me either! I too spent many years away for God and was totally hooked on drugs.

I believe that it is difficult for Christians who have not experienced the level of backsliding you refer to, to understand what you are talking about. And, thank God that they do not; I would not wish the scars and regrets I deal with every day on anyone in this world.

Brother, I will endeavor to keep you in my prayers and ask you to do the same for me.

 

Freeatlast,

"No the verse is not fopr lost people. It is to show the truth about who ius saved. No one who practices homosexuality can be saved."

How shall I say this in a Christian manner? You are ...ahem... well just plain wrong!

Salvation is based on belief in Christ and faith is His ability to forgive sins. By your definition no one can be saved. I've got news for you - you too are a sinner! Just as every one of us is!

I think a better way to capture the spirit of 1 Cor 6:9 is to say that no one who has indwelling of the Holy Spirit can commit those sins without being CONVICTED. The sins in an of themselves do not preclude salvation. Reading one verse in isolation always brings bad results!

 

Freeatlast: YOU are wrong and here's scripture to PROVE it.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

 

Freeatlast,

I do not mean this in an unkind manner, but I think it is presumptious that you would deem who is lost and who is not.

Jesus KNOWS the heart of the person. We cannot. If someone tells me that they are saved, I believe them. It is NOT my opinion, decision, etc. whether they are saved or not.

 

Freeatlast,

By your interpretation, the apostle Paul was not even saved. For he practiced the evil that he did not want to do. It does not matter how often you sin. Whether you sin once a day, week or month, you are practicing sin.