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Do Posttribs have trouble populating the millennium?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by IfbReformer, Jan 3, 2004.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    ZIfbReformer: "Hope that answers your question there."

    Yes, it does. Thank you for your time.
    The only other answer
    seems to be (a-mill with literal second coming):
    7 cycles all describing the time from the first
    coming and the second coming. The Second Coming
    is immediated followed by total destruction
    of all physical creation: heaven and earth.
    So i agree a lot more with what you said
    than with the a-mill stuff i've heard.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    IfbReformer: "I've never seen
    anyone cut up matthew 24
    the way you just did. WOW!

    I ain't Schofield, Larking, or LeHay.
    I is Ed. [​IMG]

    Here is your new word of the day:
    POLYSYNDETON.
    (people who look this up only in
    an on-line place are usually disappointed)

    Note that the Greeks didn't have
    microsoft Word bullets so they
    use polysyndeton "and"s.

    IbfReformer: "It amazes me how
    you can cut out verse 31 and put
    it before verses 29-30".

    Ain't the speaker Jesus an amazing
    Lord and Savior? BTW, "I" don't cut
    out verse 31 and put it before verses
    29-30 (we are talking Matthew 24 here),
    Matthew did it for Jesus.
    Jesus was asked three questions
    in Matthew 24.

    "When will all this take place?
    And will there be any sign ahead
    of time to signal your return
    and the end of the world F132 ?"
    -------------------------------
    FOOTNOTES:
    F132: Or the age.

    Here are the three questions:
    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    2. what is the sign of Jesus'es return?
    3. what is the sign of the end of the age?

    What did Jesus say in answer to
    each of these questions? I want
    a summary of His Answer, I want the
    scriptures in Matthew 24 that relate
    to each answer.

    IMHO Jesus answered the questions
    in the order asked, not the order
    that events will play out.\

    But i said all of this in an
    ingored post:

    --------------------------------
    In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
    ask three questions:

    (in the order asked):
    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    3. What is the sign of the end of age?

    Jesus answers these questions in
    Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
    some parables.

    Here are the answers of Jesus in the
    order the questions were asked:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-20

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:21-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    Here is a summary of the answers
    in the order in which events will occur:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Soon, it was in 70AD

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    No signs preceeding the end of the age

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    The Sign of His coming will be the
    Tribulation period.


    Recall the Greek language in which this
    Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
    did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
    So many ands, buts, and other connectors
    give the outline. I believe the major
    outline to be:

    1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
    Matthew 24:4-20

    2. What is the sign of His coming?
    Matthew 24:21-30

    3. What is the sign of the end of age?
    Matthew 24:31-44

    The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
    Rapture/resurrection which ends the
    current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
    etc&gt;)

    Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes not only the
    immediate time before 70AD when the
    AOD = abomination of desolation happened
    (Matthe 24:15-2) but also all of the
    church age even up to this time.
    Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
    --------------------------------------

    Having studied the eschatological problem
    for some 52 years, i've heard a lot of
    questions. My eschatology answers many
    of them, the ones that can be answered
    from the Bible, even some that cannot be
    answered from the Bible.

    Someone said:
    Why doesn't John mention the rapture in
    Revelation? He does, by type in Revelation 4:1.

    Someone asked:
    Why doesn't Jesus mention the rapture?
    He does in the Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD)

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Regarding "day" in 2 Peter 3:10.

    in my dictionary:
    "7. a time considered as
    propitious or opportune"

    So i believe the day of the Lord
    to be the appropriate time that
    our blessed Lord and Savior,
    Messiah Jesus will once again
    interfere in the affairs of mankind.

    In the early 60s (i was 21 so an adult
    in 1964) Russia and the USA finaly had
    enough nuclear weapons to kill all
    humans on earth and possibly all life
    on earth. Someone surely needs to
    interfere in the affairs of humankind.

    Because Revelation 19-20 gives
    a true time-line for this, we
    see that "Day of the Lord" must
    exceed 1,000 years.

    So it does not surprise me when i
    find the "day the Lord comes" is
    seven years long.

    BTW there is also an 8-hour work day.
    There is a 24-hour day at one place
    on the earth. There is a 48-hour
    day (the length of a day at all points
    on the earth). I've not seen the
    48-hour day mentioned in any dictionary.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. prionseas

    prionseas New Member

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    Hi All,

    I am very new to this site and I am wondering if any AMil could explain something to me. If the Papacy is "The Anti" Christ, what is the Mark of the Beast??.

    Any suggestions.

    Many thanks and Every Blessing

    Prionseas
     
  5. postrib

    postrib New Member

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    Just as nothing in Matthew 24:29-31 requires or even suggests that the first seven uses of “and” in that passage refer to seven different times, or that the eighth and ninth uses of “and” in that passage refer to two different times, so nothing requires or even suggests that the eighth use of “and” refers to a different time.

    Actually Jesus is asked only two questions before His Olivet Discourse:

    Matthew 24:3
    1. When shall these things be?
    2. What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (or age)?

    Mark 13:4
    1. When shall these things be?
    2. What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

    Luke 21:7
    1. When shall these things be?
    2. What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

    Regarding the second question, in Matthew 24, verses 27-31 refer to the same “coming of the Son of man” as verses 37-51.

    The second question in no way refers to the end of a church age because the scriptures nowhere refer to a church age, but instead say that the church will continue throughout all ages (Ephesians 3:21). The “times of the Gentiles” referred to in Luke 21:24 cannot be fulfilled before the tribulation because they will still be treading down Jerusalem during the tribulation (Revelation 11:2). The second question in no way refers to the end of an age of grace because the scriptures nowhere refer to an age of grace but show grace operating in the Old Testament (see Genesis 6:8 and Exodus 33:17 for just two examples of a myriad of such references) and the saved saints in the tribulation (e.g. Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13) will be under God’s grace.


    Revelation 4:1 is in no way a type of the rapture of the church because there is no coming of Christ in Revelation 4:1, and the Apostle John is taken all the way into heaven, while the rapture will be at the coming of Christ, and will not take anyone any higher than the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). Also, John was not changed into an immortal body as all believers will be at the rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-53).
     
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Posttrib, the "age of grace" is just a theological term (many of which do not appear in the Scriptures but a true nonetheless - i.e., trinity, rapture, ...) that contrasts the current time with the old system, the Law.

    Paul makes a salvific-historical reference to this truth in Romans 6:14.

    Now, this isn't to debate the timing of the rapture or the population of the millenium, just trying to remove an obvious point of difference so that discussion may proceed.

    Thank you.
     
  7. FaithMan

    FaithMan New Member

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    Praise the Lord for James 4:11-12.........I love you Brothers and Sisters....Keep the Faith!
     
  8. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Ed,

    You always keep on saying Matt 24:29-30 is separate from verse 31 often.

    You KNOW that verse 29 is very obivously telling us, that Christ is coming again after tribulation. So, you want to separate verse 31 from verse 29, and you intepreting verse 31 into "pretrib" rapture. But, not what Christ was actaully saying.

    Again, you still not follow Hermenuetic rule - Interpreting in contextually.


    Matt 24:29-31 focus on the contextually talk about second advent to gathering the saints that would be after tribulation. It is so clear.

    I aware that you won't admit that you are resisting with Matt 24:29-31 speak so clear.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  9. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    The Bible does not teaching that, there will be repopulate the world again after the second advent. There is no verse to support that doctrine.

    The Bible tells us, that all unbelievers shall be cast away into everlasting life at the second advent - Matt. 13:39-42; Matt 24:39; Matt. 25:46; and 2 Thess. 1:7-9.

    None of unbeliever shall enter eternality kingdom - 1 Cor. 15:50.

    1 Cor. 15:51-54 tell us, ALL believers shall be changed into immortality, it means no dying again, and to be glorified new body.

    Impossible for an immortality believer to sex to an immortality believer, because both are glorified perfect body like Jesus Christ - 1 John 3:2.

    Also, in Luke 20:34-36 tell us, right now, believers are able to get marry and produce more child in this present age. But, when the next age to come, believers will not get marry anymore, and not produce child, why? Verse 36 answers and saying, that believers shall be immortality and be like as angels, because believers are the children of the resurrection.

    When Christ comes, we all shall be change into immortality after the resurrection of the saints - 1 Cor. 15:51-54, & 1 Thess. 4:15-17.

    There is no scripture to support teaching on repopulate the world after the second advent.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  10. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    deafposttrib, please pay attention to the thread that is 5 pages long before you just interject stuff.

    The point of this thread is to say that if the rapture happens AFTER the tribulation (thus glorifying all saints), and all the wicked are executed (thus leaving no mortals alive), there will be none alive in a mortal body to enter the millenial kingdom.
     
  11. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Daniel,

    That's correct. That what the Bible teaches us.
     
  12. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Nothing in the contextually of Matt. 25:31-46 mentioned that mortal people shall enter the kingdom.

    I ask question, who are the sheep? Aren't sheep, the saints?

    Pretrib teaches that the sheep who will miss rapture, will have to be survive through 7 years of tribulation period, and to hospitalize the saints, and will be remain have mortal to enter millennial kingdom.

    That is logically doctrine. Matt. 25:31-46 do not saying that the sheep will miss rapture, and will hospitalize to the saints, and will remain have mortal to enter millennial kingdom.

    Matt. 25:31-46 is obivously describe same as great white throne judgement day.

    Pretrib teaches there will be three future judgments: 1. Judgment seat of Christ for the Church at rapture at the beginning of the seven year tribulation period. 2. Judgment of nations(Matt 25:31-46) for the nations who miss rapture, will be remain and survive through full of seven year tribulation, will be judge by Christ on earth. 3. Great white throne for the unsaved people who already died since from creation to end of millennial kingdom only.

    The Bible does not teach there will be three future judgment days. The Bible teaches us, there shall be only ONE judgement day at the second advent.

    Apostle Paul tells us in 2 Tim. 4:1, Christ shall judge both believers and unbelievers AT His appearing same time.

    Interesting, about 5 years ago, I went to the library at the bible college in Rochester, N.Y. I read Charles Haddon Sprugeon's commentary book. That book was printed in year 1885 A.D. I looked at his comment on Matt. 25:31-46. He said, it is the judgement seat of Christ. I agree with him. He was posttrib.

    There is no difference between judgement seat of Christ & great white throne. Both are same meaning.

    Reformers in the during Reformation period, they believed there is only one judgement day at the second advent. I agree with them.

    Although, I am not reformer, I am truly independent fundamental baptist. I notice reformers intepreting eschatology doctrine more strictly and carefully also more deeper than ifb does.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  13. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    I forget add one thing to tell you on Matt. 25:31-46.

    Matt. 25:31-46 do not mentioned, 'a thousand years' nothing.

    Matt. 25:31-46 tell us, WHEN Christ comes, He shall send his angels to separate goats from sheep, and shall judge them all at the second advent same time.

    Nothing in the context of Matt. 25:31-46 say anything about the millennial kingdom, because 'a thousand years' is not mentioned in the context in this passage.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  14. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Okay, I do not understand your point. Can you simply stick with the issue. You are all over the place.
     
  15. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    I suggest that you tell Deafposttrib very plainly. He would understand what you said. [​IMG]
     
  16. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    of course, I do stick with this issue. That is what I am discuss about this issue.
     
  17. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Ok, let me ask you one question for example.

    "I saw someone hits your sock."

    What does this mean? Can you explain to me what this sentence means? [​IMG]
     
  18. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Askjo,

    You seems so clever or smart to challenge me of that question.

    I am deaf, and many deaf people do not understand the idioms. Many hearing people understand idioms more than deaf people do.

    You seems off the point, not discuss on this issue. I am discussing on this issue.

    Please be polite explaining of this idiom, what you are talking about. Thanks.

    By the way, I am sure that you know that many deaf people have reading problems, also problem with English. BUT, not only deaf people have problem with English. Also, hearing people DO have problems with English and reading in America too!

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  19. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Deafposttrib, I am deaf, too. [​IMG]
     
  20. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    [​IMG] Agree!
     
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