Do Posttribs have trouble populating the millennium?

No, I did not point off the issue, but I tried to give you an example because

David just wanted you to look at the point what they discuss about, but you pointed this point off.

An example, If I want to discuss about posttrib, you can discuss about it. On other hand, if I want to know about midtrib, you should not discuss about posttrib. You can discuss about midtrib with some controversies. That's what the thread means.

That's why Daniel David said you interrupted this thread. That's not polite.

IfbReformer discussed about the millennium and unbelieving mortals. Please discuss about this. That's the thread.

Do you understand what I mean? Let me know.

 

I didn't know that you are deaf. I am glad that I am not alone in Baptistboard. I would like to see more deaf people invlove in Baptistboard.

By the way, no I do not interupting in this thread. I am discuss on this thread with polite.

I guess, Daniel David seems not like what I saying as I given scriptures speak on mortal and millennium. That's what I am present verses on this thread. No, I am not off the point. I am discuss focus on this thread.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

deafposttrib, I am not trying to be insulting. What exactly have you said that proves that no mortals will enter the millenium?

The fact of the matter is that mortals will enter into the joy of the Lord. However, those mortals will not be unregenerate, as the Lord will execute all unregenerate upon his return. Thus, the mortals are people who came to faith in Christ during the tribulation. Finally, the rapture could not happen at the end of the tribulation as it would change all believers into immortals. You see now?

 

DD,

I do not get your point. PLease explain more clear what you are talking about?

Pretrib believes when the rapture comes, all Christians(Church) shall be caught up, they shall receive immortality. While the mortal people(unbelievers) shall miss the rapture. Then, many mortal people shall be saved during Tribulation period. The mortal people who become saved during tribulation period, as they shall be survive through 7 years of Tribulation period. When Christ comes, and mortal people(sheep) shall be make it to enter millennium kingdom, BUT they shall be remain mortal.

HUH? Where the verse saying that the sheep(trib saints) shall be remain mortal as they enter millennium kingdom?

1 Cor. 15:51-54 is very clear teach us, when Christ comes, ALLLLLLLLLL Christians of us shall all be changed into immortality, that would be at the end of tribulation period.

1 Cor. 15:50 tells us, unbeliever shall not enter eternality kingdom.

Matt 13:39-42; Matt 24:39; Matt 25:46; 2 Thess. 1:7-9 tell us, that all unbelievers shall be cast away, they shall not receive immortality, but remain mortal with sin. They shall remain suffering in the fire forever and ever.

Premill believes there shall be mortal people on earth during millennial kingdom. That mean, mortal people will die during millennial kingdom.

But Matt. 25:46b says, "but the righteous into life ETERNAL"

Does Matt. 25:46 saying the righteous shall die again after the second advent???

How can you able to explain on Matt 25:46?

Please think about it.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

While the words “rapture” and “trinity” are not found in scripture but the concepts which they indicate are true scripturally, the “age of grace” is neither found in scripture nor is the concept which it indicates true scripturally, for the concept it indicates was simply invented by dispensationalists as part of their attempt to keep the church out of the tribulation.

While the Old Covenant has been “abolished“ and “done away” with, and has been completely replaced by the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-18; Hebrews 8:6-13; Colossians 2:14-16), and we as Christians are no longer under the Old Covenant law (Galatians 3:23-25), the scriptures show grace operating in the Old Testament (see Genesis 6:8 and Exodus 33:17 for just two examples of a myriad of such references) and the saved saints in the tribulation (e.g. Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13) will be under God’s grace.

While that may be true in the particular post quoted, the concept of “the age of grace” has been used elsewhere in this thread by a pre-tribber (e.g. January 14, 2004 08:05 AM) in an attempt to support a pre-trib timing of the rapture. And isn’t the whole point of this thread to try to support the pre-trib view by trying to negate the post-trib view?

If you meant to say all unbelievers shall be cast away into everlasting death at the second advent, then you agree with many pre-tribbers on this point, though you continue to disagree with most of them regarding whether or not there will be a millennium, as most of them (as many post-tribbers) are premillennial while you are amillennial.

Regarding the quoted claim, no scripture says that no unbeliever can survive the second coming wrath. There will be unbelievers “left” at the second coming (Zechariah 14:16; compare Matthew 24:40), “heathen” nations who will not come up to worship Jesus without great punishment (Zechariah 14:17-19), unbelieving nations which believers will rule over with a rod of iron during the millennium and break to shivers like a potter’s vessel (Revelation 2:26-27). And there will be a Jewish remnant in Jerusalem which will be provided a way of escape from the wrath of the second coming (Zechariah 14:5) who will be allowed to come to faith in Jesus at His second coming (Zechariah 12:10-14).

Regarding the referenced passages:

Matthew 13:39-42 refers to the casting of the wicked into the lake of fire after the millennium (Revelation 20:15).

Matthew 24:39 does not require that all unbelievers will be destroyed at the second coming just as all unbelievers were destroyed in the flood, only that the unbelievers taken away at the second coming will “know not” until they are taken away, just as all the unbelievers destroyed in the flood “knew not” until they were taken away, for the very next verse indicates that at the second coming only some unbelievers will be taken away, while others will be left.

Matthew 25:46 refers to the casting of the wicked into the lake of fire after the millennium (Revelation 20:15).

The everlasting destruction referred to in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 does not have to apply to every last unbeliever immediately at the second coming, for, again, some unbelievers will be left alive at the second coming (Matthew 24:40; Zechariah 14:16).

While it’s true that no unbelievers will be able to enter into God’s eternal kingdom in the New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:14-15), no scripture says or requires that no unbelievers will be able to enter into the millennial kingdom, for we even see the opposite in passages such as Zechariah 14:16-19.

1 Corinthians 15:50 refers only to “inheriting” the kingdom; there can be unbelievers in the millennial kingdom who have not inherited the kingdom, just as there can be people in a house who have not inherited that house.

The claim that all the wicked must be executed at the second coming has been shown in this post to be incorrect.

While believers will be judged at the second coming (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy 4:1), unbelievers will not be judged until after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

2 Timothy 4:1 does not say or require that Christ shall judge both believers and unbelievers at His appearing or at the same time, for, again, unbelievers will not be judged until after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

Matthew 25:31-46 does not require that Christ judge all unbelievers immediately after His second coming, only that He judge them sometime subsequent to His second coming. The judgment of unbelievers is not seen at the second coming (Revelation 19), but is seen after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

It doesn’t need to be. The thousand years is clearly mentioned in the context of Revelation 20:7-15.

The scriptures do not support any of the three premises required to make the quoted statement. To make this statement, you would first have to show where the scriptures say the church will be raptured before the tribulation, and then you would have to show where the scriptures show people coming to faith in Christ during the tribulation, and then you would have to show where the scriptures say or require that every last unbeliever will be killed immediately at the second coming. Because the scriptures neither say nor require any of these three things, the post-trib view remains scripturally sound while the pre-trib view (like the amillennial view) is not sound.

The latter part of Matthew 25:46 refers to those believers who will come to faith in Christ during the millennium (e.g. Isaiah 66:19-21), and who then will be judged at the white throne judgment with all unbelievers, but unlike the unbelievers, their names will be found written in the book of life (Revelation 20:15).

 

DeafPosttrib: "Pretrib believes when the rapture comes,
all Christians(Church) shall be caught up, they shall
receive immortality. While the mortal people(unbelievers)
shall miss the rapture. Then, many mortal people shall
be saved during Tribulation period. The mortal people who
become saved during tribulation period, as they shall be survive
through 7 years of Tribulation period. When Christ comes
and mortal people(sheep) shall be make it to enter millennium kingdom,
BUT they shall be remain mortal. "

I don't remember any pretrib teacher that teaches
that saved people will enter the Millinnial Kingdom
(well, other than David Daniel).
BTW, most pretribbers teach the only way for a
non-Jewish person to get saved in the Tribualtion period
is to get their head chopped off. This makes them dead to
the world. So at the end of the Tribulation there are
no non-Israeli persons on the earth that are still saved.

Postrib: "The latter part of Matthew 25:46 refers to those believers
who will come to faith in Christ during the millennium ... "

I disagree. the latter part of Matthew 25 describes the judgement of the
nations (not individuals) that survive the Tribulation period.
All those surviving the Tribulation period and the Judgment following
(only lost people) will populate the Millinnial Kingdom.

Certain persons described in Revelation 20:4 from the Church Age
(those sitting on thrones) and from the Tribulation Times
(those beheaded for the witness of Jesus) are selected for
the special honor of serving on Earth with Jesus in their glorified
bodies.

Yep, posties can't populate the Millinnial Kingdom
save with imortals. tee hee

 

Ed, & Posttrib,

I will reply you back tomorrow night. Because I have to work tonight - 3rd shift job.


In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Eek! Not
Sataurday eve/Sunday morning

 

Actually the latter part of Matthew 25 describes the judgment of the individuals of all nations at the white throne judgment; the judgment of unbelievers is not seen at the second coming (Revelation 19), but is seen after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

The first part of Matthew 25:46 refers to the casting of the wicked into the lake of fire after the millennium (Revelation 20:15). The second part of Matthew 25:46 refers to those believers who will come to faith in Christ during the millennium (e.g. Isaiah 66:19-21), and who then will be judged at the white throne judgment with all unbelievers, but unlike the unbelievers, their names will be found written in the book of life (Revelation 20:15).

The scriptures nowhere refer to a church age, but instead say that the church will continue throughout all ages (Ephesians 3:21).

With all due respect, this is incorrect. The millennium will be populated by the unbelievers who survive the second coming. After the second coming, Jesus will force the heathen nations who are “left” to come up and worship him in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16-18; compare Matthew 24:40). Believers will rule over these nations with a rod of iron and break them to shivers (Revelation 2:26-27).

 

postrib, Ed,

Sorry!! I didn't reply this back to you for so LONG TIME!!! I was so busy!

But tonight, I promise, I will reply it back to you and continue discuss on millennial issue, because tonight is my night off from my 3rd shift job.


In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Good to be off a day.
See you after evening worship.

 

postrib, & Ed,

I'm back!

Postrib,

You discuss on Zechariah chapter 14 to prove that there shall be some remain left of these people who against Jerusalem shall come to worship the King.

Remember, 'a thousand years' does not mentioned in the context of Zechariah chapter 14.

The context of Zechariah 14 discusses about the judgement day at the coming of Christ.

I am sure that many of premillers use verse 16 to prove premillennial doctrine, that there shall be mortal people remain left to enter millennial kingdom.

I would like to show you veree 16 again,

It says, "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is LEFT OF all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the KIng, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles."

Notice it says, 'And it shall come to pass'. It refers to Acts 2:21 - "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Peter told to the Jews during Pentacost Day, when they shall see the sun, moon, and the stars become darkened(vs. 20)then, they should call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. That verse 21 refers to Romans 10:9-13. My understand of verse 21 command to them, that they must call upon the Lord and shalll be saved, because they must do it before too late, because Christ shall judge them in that day. There shall be no another chance to become saved after Christ comes - 1 Cor. 6:2 " . Peter was speak to the Jews. But, Acts 2:21 & Romans 10:9-13 both are not just for the Jews only, also to us as Gentiles too.

Then, every one that is LEFT OF all the nations against Jerusalem' It means anyone who were against God's people, they then should call upon the name of the Lord, and be saved, so, they shall worship the Lord daily as devotional life.

Premill believes there shall be restoration of the sacrifices and offerings also rebuilt of the temple again during millennial kingdom.

In the New Testament, it does not saying there shall be another sacrifices and offerings, and rebuilt another temple again after the second advent. Because Jesus said "it is finished" - John 19:30. Christ is now our Lamb. And we no longer need them. Christ is our Lamb. We can ask Christ to forgive us our sins daily 24 hours.

Zech 14:17 tells us, if anyone do not believe and not keep God's commandment, shall not receive blessing. Verse 17 speaks of unbelievers.

Zech. 14:18 tells us, if anyone as unbelievers of the world do not believe in Jesus Christ, they have no blessing. , they should suffer the wrath of God - John 3:36.

Zech 14:19 explians the same thing as verse 18.

Zech. 14:20 tells us, IN THAT DAY we all shall become into holiness and become glorified(1 Cor. 15:51-54). And also we are God's pots.

'IN THAT DAY' is the second coming on the last day.

Zech. 14:21a tells us, we all shall be become into holiness, and our sins shall be taken away, and we shall be caught up - rapture.

Zech. 14:21b tells us, there shall be NO MORE the Cannaanites in the house of the Lord. It means, there shall be NO MORE unbelievers in God's place, because all of them shall be cast away into everlasting punishment - Matt. 13:39-42, Matt 25:46, 2 Thess. 2:1-9.

I emphasis that the context of Zechariah chapter 14 does not mentioned, 'a thousand years' in there. The context of that chapter discusses about the judgement day at the Lord's coming.

Oh yes. Remember, the lesson of the flood in Genesis chapter 6 to 8. It telling us, when the flood came took ALL them away - Gen. 7:21-23. B]NONE of unbeliever was remain left to survived after the flood. ALL of them were killed by the flood. Only 8 people in the Ark were saved. 8 people are believers.

SO.... Matt 24:37-39 tell us, it shall be also SAME as the coming of the Lord shall be!! That means, when Christ comes, all unbelievers shall be destroyed!!!

NONE of unbeliever shall be survive and remain left after the judgement day at the second advent.

You misunderstand what Matt 24:40 talks about. Christ gaves us the illustrate what will happen at the coming of Christ. Matt 24:40-41 discusses about the thief in the night same as Luke 17:34-37. Christ tells us, there are only two groups which shall be taken or left.

Pretrib interpreting verse 40-41 - 'take up' means believers shall be caught up - rapture, some shall be 'left' - unbelievers shall be left on earth for through seven year of tribulation period.

Posttrib intepreting verse 40-1 - 'take up' means, unbelievers shall be taken up for the judgement, some 'left' means believers shall be left, for not face the judgement.

Both intepreting of verse 40-41 do not matter me which one is correct. My understanding of verse 40-41 warn to us, that in that day, it will be terrible for people who are not watch and ready- verse 42, will face terrible judgement day.

No question, EVERYONE either unbeliever or believer WILL BE GATHERING TOGETHER BY taken up in the air for to face the judgement day - Matt 25:31-33.

Yes, ALL unbelievers shall be taken away by shocked and unexpect that would be at the thief in the night on the day of the Lord comes.

The problem is, Matt. 13:39-42 do not mentioned, 'a thousand years'. Christ clearly telling us, that the angels shall taken all unbelievers away ON the END OF THE AGE/WORLD

Right now, we are in this present age. This present age shall be end WHEN Christ comes with his angels to taken all unbelievers away into fire - Matt. 25:31-33,46 & 2 Thess. 1:7-9.

THe problem is, the context of Matt. 25:31-46 does not mentioned, 'a thousand years'. Matt. 25:31-46 clear telling us, that all unbelievers shall be cast away into the fire on the judgement day at Christ's coming with his angels.

Does Apostle Paul actually saying that, SOME unbelievers shall not cast into the fire at Lord's coming with his angels - 2 Thess. 1:7-9??

Paul does not saying it. Paul says, "In falaming fire taking vengeance on them(for what??)that KNOW NOT God, and that OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."

Yes, Paul telling us, the angels shall take all of them who NOT believe on Christ, and reject the gospel of Jesus Christ, cast them away into the fire at the second advent.

Oh yes!!

Look at 2 Tim. 4:1 again, please. It says, "I charge thee therefore before God, and the LOrd Jesus Christ, who shall judge the QUICK and the DEAD AT his appearing and his kingdom."

Paul tells us, Christ shall judge both quick and the dead at His appearing same time, it supports Matt. 25:31-46!

'Quick' represents believers - Eph. 2:1,5.
'Dead' represents unbelievers - Eph 2:1,5.

Isn't hard for you to read 2 Tim. 4:1?

OH COME ON!!!

Isn't hard for you to read the context of Matt. 25:31-46??

Christ tells us, He shall send his angels to gathering ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL goats(unbelievers) by separate from sheep(believers), and all of them shall be cast into everlasting punishment - Matt 25:46.

Oh yes!!

Look to Rev. 19:18 says, "That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captians, and the flesh of mighty men. and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and THE FLESH OF ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL MEN, BOTH FREE AND BOND, BOTH SMALL AND GREAT.

Yes, Rev. 19:18 tells us, that all unbelievers shall be destroyed at the second coming follow the judgement day.

Let you know, that the chronological of the book of Revelation is not in order. Revelation have retelling events, and it have parallels.

Revelation chapter 19 describe the end of the sins and unbelievers shall be destroyed at the second coming.

Revelation chapter 20 describes cover the history of the church from Calvary to the second advent.

Rev. 20:7-10 tells us, that at the end of the age- second coming, Satan shall gathering all nations to war against God's, then fire shall be send to destroy Satan's armyThen, Christ shall judge all people of the world - Rev. 20:11-15.

Rev. 20:11-15 is same as Matt. 25:31-46.

I read Charles Haddon Sprugeon's commentary in the library at Cologate Divinty School in Rochester, NY. I read his comment on Matt. 25:31-46, he called it, 'judgment seat of Christ'. I agree with him.

There is no difference between 'judgment seat of Christ' & 'great white throne', both are same.

I have a point question for you.

Pretrib teaches, 'judgement seat of Christ' will take place in the heaven during seven year of tribulation period. It seems have enough time for God to judge to ONLY believers before Christ comes to earth.

Posttrib teaches, 'judgment seat of Christ' will place take at the end of tribulation.

I ask you a question, WHERE IS THE TIME for the Christians to face the judgement of Christ while Christ comes to earth to judge the unbelievers????

It makes the period of judgement seat of Christ into so SQUEEZE into very, very short time?!

Pretrib teaching on the timing of the judgement seat of Christ seems right to me. But, if suppose Christ judge all Christians for only 7 years.

Let's do math how many Christians, that Christ shall judge them total in seven years.

Suppose rapture comes, 200 millions of alive CHristians caught up in the air, then face the judgement seat of Christ.

So, let's start with the seconds to figure out math, to see how many Christians, Christ have to judge them total in seven years.

60 seconds equal a minute.

60 X 60 minutes - a hour = 3600 seconds

3600 seconds X 24 hours - a day = 86400 seconds

86400 seconds X 7 days - a year = 31,536,000 sec

31,536,000 seconds X 7 years = 220,752,000 sec

That means, Christ have to judge 220 millions of alive Christians in only seven years. How about dead Christans from creation to the last days of the Church Age??? There are millions, and millions or probably over a billion of dead Christians total from creation to the last day of the Church Age.

Obivously, Christ do not have enough time to judge all Christians from creation to the last day of Church Age squeeze into only seven years. What about the marriage supper of the Lamb? God already appointed the marriage supper of the Lamb for us. What can the Christians do after the judgement seta of Christ? They would have to take a snack bag with sandwiche with them, and take with them while riding on the horses follow Christ to earth.

Pretrib teaching on the timing of the judgment seat of Christ does not make a sense to me.

Premill/Postrib teaching on the timing of the judgment seat of Christ does not make a sense to me.

Bible clear teaching us that the judgement seat of Christ shall take place after the seocnd coming to judge ALL people at once.

I ask you, does Christ actually saying it accord to your comment?

SILENCE.

Matt 25:46 tells us, once Christ comes, then all believers shall have [/B]EVERLASTING LIFE!!!![/B]

That means, NO believer shall die again once AFTER Christ comes, because all of us shall chnage into immortality - 1 Cor. 15:51-54.


Ed,

BALONEY! You have been pretrib for over 50 years, no excuse for you to saying to me. You know better than that. I am sure that you DO HAVE pretrib books, commentaries on the bookshelves in your library.

I do have pretrib books with me. All of them are premill, they teaching these mortal people who shall be survived through seven years of tribulation period, shall remain mortaal and enter millennial kingdom.

I read Hal Linsdey books, he believes these mortal people who shall be survive and remain shall enter millennial kingdom.

Jack Van Impe believes these mortal people who shall be survive and remain shall enter millennial kingdom.

I read Tim LaHaye books. He believes these mortal people who shall be survive and remain shall enter millennial kingdom.

I read book - "Things to Come" by Dr. Pentacost. He believes these mortal people who shall be survive and remain shall enter millennial kingdom.

And more...


I am sure that you did read pretrib/premill books discuss about millennial kingdom. I know you won't to admit it to me. Only God knows your heart.

You also, say,

HUH??? Why you saying it? Where did you learn on that come from???

Again, I ask you, who are 'lost people'?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

That’s correct. There will be unbelievers “left” at the second coming (Zechariah 14:16; compare Matthew 24:40), “heathen” nations who will not come up to worship Jesus without great punishment (Zechariah 14:17-19), unbelieving nations which believers will rule over with a rod of iron during the millennium and break to shivers like a potter’s vessel (Revelation 2:26-27). And there will be a Jewish remnant in Jerusalem which will be provided a way of escape from the wrath of the second coming (Zechariah 14:5) who will be allowed to come to faith in Jesus at His second coming (Zechariah 12:10-14).

A thousand years do not have to be specifically referred to in Zechariah 14:16-20 for it to be referring to the same millennial reign of Christ on earth as Revelation 20:4, which reign will be “over all the earth” (Zechariah 14:9) and will continue “from year to year” (Zechariah 14:16) and “in summer and in winter” (Zechariah 14:8).

Zechariah 14:3-5 shows the second coming of Christ and Zechariah 14:6-21 shows what will occur on the earth subsequent to the second coming.

But Zechariah 14:20-21 shows sacrifices at a rebuilt temple subsequent to the second coming of Zechariah 14:3-5.

During the millennium, people will go to the temple and perform sacrifices (Zechariah 14:20-21) as simple reminders of Christ’s sacrifice, just as people go to church buildings today and perform the communion ceremony as a simple reminder of Christ’s sacrifice.

Zechariah 14:21 refers to people coming to the temple and taking literal pots in which to seethe their sacrifices.

Zechariah 14:21 refers to the same thousand year “day” as Zechariah 14:8-9 and Zechariah 14:20, which will continue “in summer and in winter” (Zechariah 14:8) and “from year to year” (Zechariah 14:16), for a thousand years are as a day in the Lord’s sight (2 Peter 3:8).

Matthew 13:39-42 refers to the casting of the wicked into the lake of fire after the millennium (Revelation 20:15).

All unbelievers are not cast into the everlasting punishment of the furnace (Matthew 13:42) of the lake of fire at the second coming, only the beast and false prophet are (Revelation 19:20). After the millennium (Revelation 20:4) and the battle of Gog and Magog occur (Revelation 20:7-8), and before the white throne judgment occurs (Revelation 20:11-15), Satan will also be cast into the lake of fire where only the beast and false prophet had been previously cast (Revelation 20:10).

Matthew 13:42 and Revelation 20:15 refer to the subsequent casting of all those not written in the book of life into the lake of fire at the white throne judgment after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

The millennium will not begin until after the second coming (Revelation 19:11-21) and after the resurrection of the church (Revelation 20:6), in which resurrection those in the church martyred under the reign of the beast will also be resurrected to reign with Christ for the thousand years (Revelation 20:4).

The first part of Matthew 25:46 refers to the casting of the wicked into the lake of fire after the millennium (Revelation 20:15). The second part of Matthew 25:46 refers to those believers who will come to faith in Christ during the millennium (e.g. Isaiah 66:19-21), and who then will be judged at the white throne judgment with all unbelievers, but unlike the unbelievers, their names will be found written in the book of life (Revelation 20:15).

2 Thessalonians 2:1-9 refers to the destruction of the Antichrist at the second coming (2 Thessalonians 2:8; compare Revelation 19:20).

Matthew 24:39 does not require that all unbelievers will be destroyed at the second coming just as all unbelievers were destroyed in the flood, only that the unbelievers taken away at the second coming will “know not” until they are taken away, just as all the unbelievers destroyed in the flood “knew not” until they were taken away, for the very next verse indicates that at the second coming only some unbelievers will be taken away, while others will be left.

 

If you notice Matthew 24:31, the elect will be gathered together at the second coming; it doesn’t say that the elect will be either taken or left, so Matthew 24:40 can refer only to unbelievers who are taken and left. Some unbelievers will be taken to where the birds will eat their dead bodies (Luke 17:36-37; Matthew 24:28; Revelation 19:21), while other unbelievers will be left alive (Zechariah 14:16-18). So the “one taken, one left” of Matthew 24:40 doesn’t refer to believers at all.

Matthew 13:39-42 doesn’t have to specifically mention the thousand years for it to be referring to the same event as Revelation 20:15, which is the casting of all those not written in the book of life into the lake of fire at the white throne judgment after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

Matthew 13:40’s reference to the end of the world (or age) can be a reference to the end of the millennial age, subsequent to which the earth will flee away (Revelation 20:11) and be replaced by the new earth (Revelation 21:1).

The everlasting destruction referred to in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 does not have to apply to every last unbeliever immediately at the second coming, for, again, some unbelievers will be left alive at the second coming (Matthew 24:40; Zechariah 14:16).

2 Timothy 4:1 does not say or require that Christ shall judge both believers and unbelievers at His appearing or at the same time, for, again, unbelievers will not be judged until after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

2 Timothy 4:1 could be referring to the quick believers who will still be on the earth and to the dead believers who will return with Christ at His second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17; 1 Corinthians 15:51-52).

No.

No. Matthew 25:31-46 does not require that Christ judge all unbelievers immediately after His second coming, only that He judge them sometime subsequent to His second coming. The judgment of unbelievers is not seen at the second coming (Revelation 19), but is seen after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15). The thousand years is clearly mentioned in the context of Revelation 20:7-15.

Just as the “all men” in Revelation 19:18 doesn’t require that all believing men will be eaten by the birds, so it doesn’t require that all unbelieving men will be eaten by the birds. Revelation 19:18 refers only to all the unbelieving men gathered in the armies that are slain in Revelation 19:19-21. It doesn’t refer to every last unbeliever on the earth, for some unbelievers who are not in the armies will be “left” (Matthew 24:40; Zechariah 14:16).

Revelation 19:19 - 20:3 and Revelation 20:7-10 refer to two separate battles, the first led by the beast and occurring at the second coming and culminating with Satan being bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years, the second led by Gog and Magog and occurring after the thousand years and culminating with Satan being cast into the lake of fire forever.

I agree that Revelation 20:11-15 is the same judgment as Matthew 25:31-46, which will occur after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

While believers will be judged at the second coming (1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy 4:1), unbelievers will not be judged until after the millennium and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-15).

The time is there, for “One day is with the Lord as a thousand years” (2 Peter 3:8). And just as God now hears the prayers of all believers at the same time and works in the lives of all believers at the same time, so at the second coming He could judge all believers at the same time.

The scriptures nowhere refer to a church age, but instead say that the church will continue throughout all ages (Ephesians 3:21).

The marriage supper will be on the earth after Christ fights the armies that gathered at Armageddon (Revelation 19:17; Isaiah 25:6-9).

At the second coming, believers will be gathered together from heaven and earth in order to be judged (Psalms 50:4-5, compare Mark 13:27) and married (Revelation 19:7) in the clouds before they mount white horses and follow Christ down as He fights the armies that gathered at Armageddon (Revelation 19:14-21).

The second part of Matthew 25:46 refers to those believers who will come to faith in Christ during the millennium, which conversion Christ previously revealed to the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 66:19-21.

 

Brethren: Still all very interesting! I note that the moderator has taken down the long thread where I asked a few questions based on the original idea, "verses that give problems for" certain millenial views. So far as I know (and I may have missed some), no one really tried to discuss Mt. 11:20-24, Mt. 12:38-42, or Titus 2:13 (where grammar demands that "kai" be translated "even" in both clauses, making the blessed hope the same thing as the glorious appearing), from a dispensational viewpoint (whether pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib). My interest in your reading of these literal passages still stands. Let me add one more; II Thess. 1:7-10 explicitly states that God will recompense tribulation to them that trouble you (believers), and give rest to those who are troubled, "WHEN THE LORD JESUS SHALL BE REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS, IN FLAMING FIRE TAKING VENGEANCE ON THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD . . . WHO SHALL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD . . . WHEN HE SHALL COME TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS, AND TO BE ADMIRED IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE . . . "

When is all this? So far as this text is concerned, it is all at the very same time. A literal reading of these plain verses says that WHEN He is revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, He gives rest to those of us who have been troubled, punishes those who do not obey the gospel of Christ, and is glorified in His saints.
And it all happens, according to the end of v. 10,
"in that day." What a day that will be!

Geno (I believe - just had a scan of the whole thread, but I think this was your post), Matt. 25
refers to all nations, and gives the sheep (clearly saved folks, from John 10) the "kingdom prepared from the foundation of the earth," but sends the goats (evidently lost?) into everlasting fire, everlasting punishment. One becomes a sheep in the finished work of Christ that we call the gospel, the new birth experience.
Whether "gospel" is mentioned in the passage is not the question; it isn't mentioned at the Great White Throne of Rev. 20:11-15 either. The question is, does one become a sheep by caring for national Israel, or by believing Jesus?

Best to all - I hope this thread isn't pulled before I can get back to the computer! In His Service and Studying Together, Charles Blair - Rom. 8:28

 

Isaiah 65:17-20 describe about the new heavens and a new earth, it is much same refer with Rev. 21:1-3.

Therefore, Isa. 65:17-20 very clearly speak of future perfect eternality conditional, that we looking forward for according to Romans 8:19-23 and 2 Peter 3:12-13.

The context of Isaiah chapter 65 say nothing about 'a thousand years'.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

postrib,

I will reply back to you tonight.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!