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Featured Do the aborted and babies that die . . .

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, May 4, 2021.

?
  1. No.

    76.5%
  2. Maybe.

    5.9%
  3. Yes.

    11.8%
  4. No opinion.

    5.9%
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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That does not change what God excludes.
    Deuteronomy 24:16, "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
    Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Often repeated notion. Where it comes from is Jairus daughter was 12 years old, Luke 8:42, and she is called a little daughter, Mark 5:23, which is in the same sense a little child which Jesus says, Mark 10:14, ". . . little children . . .,for such is the kingdom of God. . . ." Equivalent to being our 11 years old. A child was reckond as one when thy are born.
     
  3. Titus Tarnum

    Titus Tarnum Member

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    But if you are righteous God won't punish you for your father's sin
    Ezk 18:17
    Who has withdrawn his hand from the poor
    And not received usury or increase,
    But has executed My judgments
    And walked in My statutes—
    He shall not die for the iniquity of his father;
    He shall surely live!

    But I think we are missing the point that, whether baby in the womb or 90 year old sinner, being a descendant the first Adam doesn't get you into Heaven so you need to be adopted into the second Adam. To me the question is can God give a person grace, faith and the Holy Spirit and adopt a baby after they die? Some people say that original sin makes us unacceptable which I agree with but why does death stop God from witnessing to a baby?

    1 Peter 3:19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

    If God preached to these souls for judgment why couldn't He preach to a martyred child for salvation ?
     
    #63 Titus Tarnum, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    But where is the indication that the 12 year old WASN'T A BELIEVER?
     
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't agree with your understanding of it. There are MANY Calvinists that believe it is simultaneous.
     
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The sole reason the lost will perish is their name will not be in the book of life, Revelation 20:15.

    Why the prerequisite to being a child, Mark 10:15? John 3:4.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    How about a 4 year old being a believer. Or a new born?

    . . . little children . . . . Mark 10:14-15. John 3:4.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    They were already sons of God, Genesis 6:4.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying a 4 year old can't be a believer? I think you are reading something into Christ's words that are not there. By the way, yes, four year olds can be believers. I've seen it. I was saved at 5.
     
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  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    ^Proof reformed Ordo Salutis is false
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I believe the atonement has that covered for the little babies.
     
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  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I heard God was a Good guy.

    Not a evil melomaniac who takes pleasure and glory at the rape of children but sends babies to hell for his sadistic "glory", not that any of you "courageous" souls would pushover to a evil "god" that way.
     
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  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Not what I said.
     
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  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I voted no and I am reminded that is Gods business and none of mine... Brother Glen:)
     
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Ok misunderstood you then.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word. ( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind the written word of God is explicitly silent on how and why names are in the book. Names are either blotted out of the book or never blotted out. Exodus 32;33, Psalms 69:27-28 or Revelation 3:5.

    The sole reason in the Judgement people perish are names are not written in the book.

    The children are conceived with the sin nature.
    In order for the aborted and children who die too young to believe not to perish, their names would not have been blotted out.

    Mark 10:15, John 3:3-4.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is an interpertation.

    Mark 10:15, John 3:4, Mark 10:14.
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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