Do the MV's Violate the Fundamentals/Doctrines of the faith?

I assume you are requesting Biblical and/or historical proof of denying the fundementals of the faith?

I also assume we are leaving out those versions which make no attempt to be accurate translations?

I would like to see that proof as well.

[ September 20, 2004, 07:04 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

The problem is here that all we will get will be lists showing how a modern version differs from the KJV. That will be presented as truth, as will "if you understood, you would understand what we are saying."

 

All those who make such lists have several probs. The first one is CIRCULAR REASONING, assuming that THEIR version is the only correct one, and that those which are different are corrupt...WITHOUT THEIR BEING ABLE TO PROVE IT. Next, they forget that many Greek and Hebrew words/phrases have multiple correct English translations, and if the context doesn't indicate the correct one in a given instance, the translator must make an "educated guess", based upon the general context of the whole Bible. Finally, they don't stop to think that some material was "omitted' for a valid reasen...that it isn't in the mss those particular translators had, and they knew it's just as wrong to ADD material as it is to OMIT it.

In short, their "lists" are based upon mostly GUESSWORK.

 

I'm still waiting for someone (CraigByTheSea?) to show that the lake of fire is not the sea of fire mingled with glass. The KJV plainly shows the difference between Hell and the lake of fire, but since that isn't a fundamental of faith, I suppose it isn't really important anyway.

 

thats not the point. You say the doctrines are the same in all the bibles, but they arent. Thats my point.

 

I would love to see true examples! List examples in full context and do not answer AVL1984's questions with questions.

Since I do not base my doctrines on one verse or half a verse, I want to see examples posted showing the entire context of the subjects in question.

*Remember that the KJV has never been the only English bible. It never has been the only one and never will never be the only one. So keep that in mind when you post, well if you post.

I use a NASB(1995) and I have not found a single doctrine or fundamental missing.

 

Rev 20 KJV
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20 NIV
13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Once again, here is my point. A fundamental of MY belief is that hell and the lake of fire are not the same place. You are warned of hell fire all throughout the bible, NIV included. But here in revelation, all of a sudden we see hades being dumped into the lake of fire. This brings rise to the interpretation that the lake of fire IS hell. Why else would we be running around warning unbelievers that they were going to hell for all eternity if they don't get saved? Hell is not the final resting place of the unbeliever. Now whether this is one of your sacred fundamentals or not is irrelevant. It is a doctrine that is easily proved in the KJV, but is muddled in most every MV. If you think that I am incorrect in stating that hell is not the lake of fire, please show it with scripture.

 

I am sure you are not going to like my response to your post. If you will go to the Greek text, yes the one used by the KJV, (Stephens 1550), the Greek word used is hades, not gehenna, which is the word that is translated hell. This true in both vs. 13 & 14 of Revelations 20. The MV's did not get it wrong in this case. Try again.

Bro Tony

 

I don't have a problem with Hades being translated Hell, I don't believe there is any difference between gehenna, hades, whatever. I'm talking about the lake of fire. Is Hell and the lake of fire the same place?

 

The point of this thread is whether the MV's change or violate the doctrines of the faith. That you have no problem with the translation of hades as hell or if it is translated hades is besides the point. As far as this thread is concern it does not change any biblical doctrine. If you want to start another thread about is the lake of fire hell, that might be interesting.

Bro Tony

 

Sometime study the origins of gehenna and hades. In the NT they are two different words.

 

The problem is that you are trying to say MV's are undermining doctrine for accurately showing the distinction that the originals showed.

If there were an argument to be made (which there isn't), it would be against the KJV for failing to make the distinction.

If I understand your post above, you believe that gehenna and hades are the same place (thus accurately translated by one word "hell" in the KJV). But because it gives you a convenient gripe, you have read between the lines of the NIV and assumed that it means hell when it says lake of fire.

The NIV hasn't "given rise" to the interpretation that hell and the Lake of Fire are the same. You have done so out of desparation to create a problem where none exists.