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Do the "un-elect" know this about themselves?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by dragonfly, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I agree. The only real non-Calvinist alternative is corporate election, which is a bit more stable, but it still boils down to man choosing himself on an individual level.

    FTR, I was not personally endorsing that theology. I was simply offering it as the primary example of the Arminian position.
     
  2. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were endorsing it at my first read, but then re-read it and realized your were stating the Arminian position. :laugh: But that's why I deal with theology and not people!
     
  3. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    of course:thumbs:
     
  4. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    Are you sure? Can you prove this?
     
  5. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    You can't "prove" anything in regards to this. It's all a matter of interpretation.

    The classic position, however, is that a sinful person will not desire to repent and to trust in Christ because it is against his nature. The only possible way for that individual to do so is for God to supernaturally intervene. Those for whom God has chosen to intervene are called the elect. These will be saved because God gives them the desire to trust in Christ. Those who have not been chosen will not trust in Christ just as an elephant will not fly--it is not in accordance with their nature.
     
  6. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Ya.

    Isaiah 55
    1Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

    2Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

    3Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

    1 Thess 1
    3Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

    4Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.


    1. The call goes out to all.
    2. The elect are the ones who come.
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Jesus is referred to as God's elect. Those in Christ are likewise.
     
  8. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    So, if only the elect can have any interest in Christianity does that mean that everyone who professes Christianity is saved?
     
  9. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Why do you ask questions for which you have already answered for yourself?
     
  10. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Not interest in "Christianity." There are many who pursue religion for a variety of reasons who do not know the Savior.
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Profession doesn't necessarily = possession.
     
  12. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Succinctly put, Rippon.
     
  13. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    Okay, I see a major contradiction here. According to what y'all are saying a person can't even care about being saved, or be interested in spiritual matters, unless they are one of the elect. Now you're saying that not everyone who professes Christ belongs to Christ. Obviously if they are professing Christ they have an interest in being saved and in spiritual things. That is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about with people who think they belong to Jesus but don't only because they aren't elect.
     
  14. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    So why are you asking questions?
     
  15. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    A lot of people want to be saved on their own terms. Only the elect are willing to be saved on God's terms.
     
  16. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    But I thought what we did or believed didn't matter and that it is all up to God to decide?
     
  17. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    To find out how people think.
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I see. :sleeping_2:
     
  19. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    What we believe is very important. However, we will not trust in Christ without God's election.
     
  20. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    But, apparently the un-elect can fool themselves into thinking they have trusted in Christ? Thus the churches full of unelected unsaved folks who think they are elect and saved?
     
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